Changes to 06 rules...

[Shawn Johnson]

Well todays the day to make your suggestions..... what did everyone come up with?

[Jonathan Paulk]

Use last years rearend rules and last years battery rule. The rest of the rules are fine with me....

[Shawn Johnson]

I would rather see them hold all these change for one more year so everyone can prepare to either change classes or their cars...
These are expensive changes that just came out of nowhere. Not a lot of time to make adjustments.
Other then that when the rules changes do go into affect I’m asking for the following:

Same rear end rules as 05…

Same battery rules as 05…

Eliminate the 390 gear rule… this rule alone will take 3 and 4 valves out of the class…

[jackchan]

I would rather see them hold all these change for one more year so everyone can prepare to either change classes or their cars...


now that sounds good. Or maybe they could hold current rules until mid season '06. As a potential new racer to a couple events this season. It would be better to be at an event.....and just be another ran, than it would to totally shock the field with "sweeping changes" and only have a 1/3 of the current racers show up all season long. Or they could possibly....give the newer persons getting a jump and swapping to the new rules.......a weight break until that mid season date....to help keep them even. Seems it would give everyone ample time to adjust. Just a thought!
Jack

[Shawn Johnson]

now that sounds good. Or maybe they could hold current rules until mid season '06. As a potential new racer to a couple events this season. It would be better to be at an event.....and just be another ran, than it would to totally shock the field with "sweeping changes" and only have a 1/3 of the current racers show up all season long. Or they could possibly....give the newer persons getting a jump and swapping to the new rules.......a weight break until that mid season date....to help keep them even. Seems it would give everyone ample time to adjust. Just a thought!
Jack


This is cloe to my thoughts...

This class has a lot ot car owners that do not have extra money laying around to just throw at thier cars in the next couple of months..
We need to get the parts to change and sell the ones we can't use..
I have seen guys on here saying that thier car now fits and that they will run maybe two or three events but thats it. The extra time will give these guys more chance to get funds togther to race a whole season..

These are major changes unlike what we have seen before not just some parts here and there.

[KenCook]

I feel the same way Jonathan.
I can live with the rest.

Correct me if I'm wrong.
Is the gear change the only thing they they did to even out the mods to the
5.0's??
Plus they added 50lbs to us.

Use last years rearend rules and last years battery rule. The rest of the rules are fine with me....

[Shawn Johnson]

I feel the same way Jonathan.
I can live with the rest.

Correct me if I'm wrong.
Is the gear change the only thing they they did to even out the mods to the
5.0's??
Plus they added 50lbs to us.

You could look at it like that.. I think the 390 gear is a bit much...

It sound like we agree on the battery and the rear end rules at least..:)

Something like a 410 gear I could live with...

[Fast Orange]

I would rather see them hold all these change for one more year so everyone can prepare to either change classes or their cars...
These are expensive changes that just came out of nowhere. Not a lot of time to make adjustments.
Other then that when the rules changes do go into affect I’m asking for the following:

Same rear end rules as 05…

Same battery rules as 05…

Eliminate the 390 gear rule… this rule alone will take 3 and 4 valves out of the class…

That would work out perfect for YOU Shawn. Wasn't it your plan to run FS for one more year, win back to back Champianships then move on th PS???


I say drop the stupid battery rule, and leave everything ealse alone for a couple of years. Let the peices fall where they may. Everyone in the class (including myself) can either make the change or move to another class.

I think the 3.90 rule is a bit stupid also. I wouldn't run that gear in anything Naturally Asp.

[Fast Orange]

Use last years rearend rules and last years battery rule. The rest of the rules are fine with me....

I like the new rearend rule. Narrowed rears & deep dish rims don't belong in Factory Stock. In the long run the money people would save on lighted axles & crap would be good for the longgevity of the class. I have a lightened Ring Gear, and I wouldn't cry if I had to change it.

[Shawn Johnson]

Yes Scott my plan was to run one more year of FS and then look to PS..

I'm in the same boat as many in that I am not prepared to spend the money to move yet....
I believe you are looking to move to another class and even not run in 06 so you can save money to move so this would help you also.

As far as winning the championship in 06 I think everyone running in the class is trying for that...

[Shawn Johnson]

I like the new rearend rule. Narrowed rears & deep dish rims don't belong in Factory Stock. In the long run the money people would save on lighted axles & crap would be good for the longgevity of the class. I have a lightened Ring Gear, and I wouldn't cry if I had to change it.

I don't know anyone running a narrowed rear end... maybe Denny's was...
I have the same rear end as you but as the rules are writen I have to change mine and build a new one.... that doesn't seem right..
You could keep the gun drilled axles out but leave the spool and the gears and any factory width....

[Fast Orange]

I don't know anyone running a narrowed rear end... maybe Denny's was...
I have the same rear end as you but as the rules are writen I have to change mine and build a new one.... that doesn't seem right..
You could keep the gun drilled axles out but leave the spool and the gears and any factory width....

I don't disagree with you, but look at all the deep dish rims that were in the class last year. Denny, Clifton, Hecox, I'm guessing yours. I was told by one of these people they saved 2lbs of rotating mass. I'm sure over this winter some others were going to go in the same direction, and deep dish rims would be standard issue in the future. I'm sure I would of done the same thing.

[Shawn Johnson]

I don't disagree with you, but look at all the deep dish rims that were in the class last year. Denny, Clifton, Hecox, I'm guessing yours. I was told by one of these people they saved 2lbs of rotating mass. I'm sure over this winter some others were going to go in the same direction, and deep dish rims would be standard issue in the future. I'm sure I would of done the same thing.

Would you be OK with the rules saying?:
any factory width....
Any type of gear
Spool ok
no gun drilled axels

[Bob Cosby]

Only issue I have with the rear-end thing is that using any factory width doesn't leave the fox guys with any ability to run a "shorter" housing like the SN95 folks can.

Spool rule I don't agree with at all. The performance advantage is almost non-existant, but it is quite a bit stronger than anything short of a locker (which though very strong, is a bit on the heavy side).

Gear rule I'm coming around to....though it remains to be seen what the real effect will be.

[Shawn Johnson]

Only issue I have with the rear-end thing is that using any factory width doesn't leave the fox guys with any ability to run a "shorter" housing like the SN95 folks can.

Spool rule I don't agree with at all. The performance advantage is almost non-existant, but it is quite a bit stronger than anything short of a locker (which though very strong, is a bit on the heavy side).

Gear rule I'm coming around to....though it remains to be seen what the real effect will be.

How is it advantage?... I'm running the same rear end the fox guys are? So the rotating wieght is the same... Running a 99+ rear end would be a disadvantage over the fox...

[CarlosSobrino]

Sorry guys that I wont agree with you on disagreeing.

All rules are acceptable, except

1) Aluminum flywheels....
As an installer, I have been installing more and more aluminum flywheels on regular street cars and cant see not giving racers the option to have one.

2) Spools...
Once again am installing spools on street/strip cars more and more. Spools are very streetable, cheaper and more reliable (for obvious reasons). A .390 geared mod with an "non-spooled" rear launching at god knows what rpms just doesnt sound like fun to me or safe.

[Shawn Johnson]

I don't know why the aluminum flywheels were put in there... I can see the aluminum pressure plates becuase of the cost but I think everyone has a aluminum flywheel....




Has anyone looked at how many contingencies we will be lossing with these changes??

[Jonathan Paulk]

Same here Carlos, nearly every car that comes into JPC for a new clutch gets an aluminum flywheel.

How about this rule...no 9 inchers, no gun drilled axles, within +/- 1 inch of OEM width....???

That 3.90 gear, looks great from the prespective of a pushrod guy!! Surprised nobody has mentioned at 2V combo?????

[Shawn Johnson]

How about this rule...no 9 inchers, no gun drilled axles, within +/- 1 inch of OEM width....???




Add spools and I'm with you.....

Now can I get you to agree on a 410 gear in place of the 390????;)

[Ian Mullane]

Only issue I have with the rear-end thing is that using any factory width doesn't leave the fox guys with any ability to run a "shorter" housing like the SN95 folks can.


What advantage does that give the 99+ cars? Let everyone run the same width rearend housing. They were all the same length until 1999 when Ford added 1.5 inches to the total width. The rearend width rule (+/- 1.0 of the factory width for the year of the car) would force Shawn to buy a new housing, new axles and new wheels (the style wheel he has now doesn't even come in the correct backspacing needed with a 99+ housing). He's looking at having to spend $2000+ to put a WIDER rearend in the car than what 95% of the class is allowed to run. I don't get that one.

[Shawn Johnson]

What advantage does that give the 99+ cars? Let everyone run the same width rearend housing. They were all the same length until 1999 when Ford added 1.5 inches to the total width. The rearend width rule (+/- 1.0 of the factory width for the year of the car) would force Shawn to buy a new housing, new axles and new wheels (the style wheel he has now doesn't even come in the correct backspacing needed with a 99+ housing). He's looking at having to spend $2000+ to put a WIDER rearend in the car than what 95% of the class is allowed to run. I don't get that one.


You forgot to add that I would have to spend that money for 1/2" length.
You can take 1" off the housing if you wanted so I'm 1/2" total to short... over anyone using a 99 to 04 housing so I suppose that would be Jeff.... I'm not sure what Carlos has....

I don't see the advantage....

[Steve Moberley]

The only rule I would like to see changed is the tailpipe rule. LOL!

Tailpipes are a pain in the ass to deal with. Also, all the streetcars around here have dumps. With dumps, you might actually be able to hear a 5.0 FS car from the stands.

Speaking of economy, I still don't understand why they won't allow C-4s in this class, when they allow such radically modified AODs.

I'm wondering if the steel flywheel bit isn't also to slow the cars down, rather than being economically based?

Maybe due to the $$$ involved they should allow a one year waiver on the housing length, like the cylinder head CCs?

I think the 2V has a better shot at this than any class they've been in before (except maybe for pre-06 RS).

Steve

[Shawn Johnson]

I also believe the 2v will be strong...

[Bob Cosby]

I'm referring only to wheel offset. May be a non-issue, as I was a stock rear-end, use whatever wheel fits person.

[Fast Orange]

Would you be OK with the rules saying?:
any factory width....
Any type of gear
Spool ok
no gun drilled axels

I would miss my spool, but I'd rather see the rule stated just like NMRA has it. Id rather keep my anti-roll bar & aluminum flywheel, but thats another topic...

[Eric LaFerriere]

How many of the guys posting here on the rules subject raced the class the last couple years and planned on running the series next year . Not just one or two local races :confused:

[KenB]

How many of the guys posting here on the rules subject raced the class the last couple years and planned on running the series next year . Not just one or two local races :confused:

Everyone in this thread is either in the top 10 from this year or helps out with a car in the top 10 except maybe 2 people. One of them being the Champ from 2004.


Ken

[Shawn Johnson]

It's a damn shame ....We had alot of fun running that green car .The sad part is the tire kickers that say they will come race with the new rules I bet will never come ...I also predict the same guys that ran up front this year will run upfront next year too....Good Luck to all ERIC



As far as the tire kickers.... many believe this to be true....
We had 10 to 14 cars last year.. one new project came out at BG and was returning for the complete 06 season.. plus three new cars coming out for 06
That would have put us atleast at 16... a full field... now what will we have??

[Bob Cosby]

We can hypothesize all we want, but lets not kid ourselves - we simply don't know how many cars would show up in 2006 under the 05 rules and how many will show up under the 06 rules.

[KenB]

We can hypothesize all we want, but lets not kid ourselves - we simply don't know how many cars would show up in 2006 under the 05 rules and how many will show up under the 06 rules.

Well I can speak for 1 4V car that our shop is behind (other that Shawn's) that would definitely be out for the entire 06 season under the 05 rules. That may not happen under the 06 rules.

Ken

[John Leslie Jr.]

We can hypothesize all we want, but lets not kid ourselves - we simply don't know how many cars would show up in 2006 under the 05 rules and how many will show up under the 06 rules.

Bob is right, we just don't know.

[FS MACH1]

i reserve the right to say if these rules stick you can -3

from 2006 , that i would have been involved with !!!!

FUNNY thing is i thought we had a great last TWO years !

i think you pushrods got what you wanted no more MODS ,
but is that what you really wanted ?????

[KenCook]

2005 F/S CAR COUNTS

Bradenton 2005 12
Reynolds 2005 10
Columbus 2005 8
Maple Grove 2005 12
Atco 2005 8
BG 2005 14
Martin 2005 9
KC 7
Joliet 2005 11

AVG 10

[KenCook]

I dont think the pushrod guys wanted the mods out of the class.
We all spoke to each other and asked for just about the same thing for the 2006 rules.

Most were asking for intakes and any DOT type tire.






i reserve the right to say if these rules stick you can -3

from 2006 , that i would have been involved with !!!!

FUNNY thing is i thought we had a great last TWO years !

i think you pushrods got what you wanted no more MODS ,
but is that what you really wanted ?????

[Skyler Hardy]

man it' been awhile since i have talked to you guys, well since BG! these rule changes fit our program pretty good. although we don't spend gobs of money don't test that much. trevor loves racing with you guys and i know he doesn't have ANY sponsor's!

this class has always been my fav. the guys that are in this class are really a standout bunch.

many of you have become my friends and we talk even after the season is over.

as for the changes i can see most of them but the reargear and spool rule are not so fitting. who care's if you have a spool? as for the gears let's just say i think we run 4:30's in trev's car, so to take that to 3:73's would be a big hit to us.

thanks to jeff for inviting me to dinner after the BG race.

[FS MACH1]

I dont think the pushrod guys wanted the mods out of the class.
We all spoke to each other and asked for just about the same thing for the 2006 rules.

Most were asking for intakes and any DOT type tire.



KEN i was being sarcastic , I got it handled ! LOL

[Brandon Alsept]

2005 F/S CAR COUNTS

Bradenton 2005 12
Reynolds 2005 10
Columbus 2005 8
Maple Grove 2005 12
Atco 2005 8
BG 2005 14
Martin 2005 9
KC 7
Joliet 2005 11

AVG 10


So the car count didn't fall from 04 to 05 then did it. I looked up all the qualifying and come up with a 10 car average for 04 as well.