Outlaw 8.5 Guys

[Kelly Pelrine]

I wanted to put this in the 8.5 section so we can discuss it here.

2008 proposed rules:

Small block N/A – 2850 lbs
Small block nitrous – 3150 lbs
Small block turbo & supercharger - 3250
Big block N/A – 3050 lbs
Big block nitrous – 3250 lbs
Big block turbo & supercharger - 3350
Add 100lbs for multi-stage NOS
Deduct 50 lbs for non-intercooled forced induction engine
4 Cylinder deduct 500 lbs from small block weight
6 Cylinder deduct 300 lbs from small block weight
Buick, Pontiac and Oldsmobile engine combinations run at small block weight

If the N/A combos start getting to the point where they are maxxing out, weight will be adjusted in small increments where we see fit (meaning any combo). Weight sheets will be gone over by our staff after each event to see where exactly which combos are running at and if changes will be warranted. Obviously there are several factors to keeping the rules as fair as possible, and i want to do everything i can to ensure that.

Discuss...

[inthe5s]

OK lets start We Know now from the last race that the Small Block NOS combo can run 129 mph @3200 still some more to be had Not a big bunch but some .I do Know the ET Record would have went to Dave pouw on that last run if the motor did not burn a hole from the start to the 330 mark Dave was faster than I was on my 48 pass .. I know my Big block combo that I have runs 130.6 in good weather and 128 in bad weather I feel that my combo like it is is done at 130.6 to 130.7 . I think I can get just a bit more on ET on good weather days like it was @ ET we had 2300 ft of air the best it has been all year. I don't have a problem adding weight to my combo but I feel the NOS small block needs to stay the same and the Turbo and Blower combos really need to be looked at . think the weight should be more than what it is but how much ??. But I would not mind trying to run the weights you have posted . SO I am saying I am good with what you Have lets see what happens

["panama" Jack]

Kelly, it was nice meeting you this weekend in Bowling Green. I was with John Leslie, Chalie, and Carlos. And thanks for answering my questions about the 8.5 class. Hopefully i can get out in the next couple weeks and do a little testing to see just how competitive my 3300lbs tank will be. (car isn't the weight problem. I am. lol )

[Kelly Pelrine]

Kelly, it was nice meeting you this weekend in Bowling Green. I was with John Leslie, Chalie, and Carlos. And thanks for answering my questions about the 8.5 class. Hopefully i can get out in the next couple weeks and do a little testing to see just how competitive my 3300lbs tank will be. (car isn't the weight problem. I am. lol )

Hey Jack i didnt even realize that you were "Panama" haha! Nice to meet you also & thanks for gettin the funnel cake Mmmm :biggrin:. No prob on the questions, hope you can make it out next year. These guys are a really great group of people, you'd have a blast!

["panama" Jack]

Hey Jack i didnt even realize that you were "Panama" haha! Nice to meet you also & thanks for gettin the funnel cake Mmmm :biggrin:. No prob on the questions, hope you can make it out next year. These guys are a really great group of people, you'd have a blast!



lol, Chalie and Carlos yellin Panama didn't give it away? :102: j/k.
We'll see how some testing goes with 8.5's. if it all works out maybe i'll finally get the urge to go racing more often instead of just working on other people's cars.

Thanks again for peaking my interest.

[Turbo Monte]

I will give this a try.

Here is my 2 cents (that are not worth a 1/4 cent) but I will throw my thoughts out here.

Here is the warning!!!!!
#1 If you don't take well to the truth. Skip to the next post below.
#2 If you offend easily. Skip to the next post below.
#3 If your undies are alittle too tight or your not in a good mood. Skip to the next post below.
#4 If your still mad about getting ripped off on the Louie Vaton man purse you bought at the swap meet. Skip to the next post below.

I have been involved with 8.5 since the beginning (yes I actually drove a car at one time).

The way I see things, 8.5 NEEDS a MAJOR overhaul. A little 50# here a little #100 there is not going to stop the bleeding. This class is in serious trouble. I already know of two 8.5 racers that raced this season and have raced both the OSCA and OSM, that have recently said that they do not have the resources to "chase" this deal with cars running 60's, 50's and 40's. We are in a bad economy and things don't look better any time soon, things need to be looked at that will help with the high cost of racing.

I don't know everything (although I've been called a Knowitall more than once). And I don't have all the answers. BUT I do know that it is very possible we could only have 5 or 6 cars next year running for a less than full purse. We need to look into ideas that will bring out new racers. A little weight change or a higher 1st place money is not going to do it, it never has and never will.

[DPouw]

Monte, your absolutely right! Even though we're one of the competitive cars, I fear the same for next season. Hell, after the last race I thought I was back in True Street again. This class has gotten way to fast for the everyday person to participate in with today's economy. Something needs to be changed to help draw more cars. I don't have all the answers either, but I do have some ideas. The 8.5 class needs to be budget minded. I say that with an open mind. Here is a site that seems to run a race that does well. Gerald Boyd races there. http://cheapstreetracing.com/index.html All that would be needed is for us to determine a set ET. If a car runs faster than the set ET for the class, then that car carries a 100lbs. penalty the rest of the season. Plus, the NOS jets are limited. The rules can be tweaked for us. This is just one suggestion. The other is to index the class to 6.0 or whatever.

[nascar]

Monte, your absolutely right.

[inthe5s]

you guys are wrong .. if you want to budget race then you need to bracket race. any heads up racing will be about who will spend the money and time to make there shit fast.. racing is not cheep and never will be but its what we like to do and we will do it . to those who quit well they never had it to start or they would have went to 6.50 or 7.50 class . this class will be fast and will draw the true street cars who can not run true street anymore do to the fact there to fast its called evolution boys. this class will draw more cars than you think .. its 8.5 outlaw where the week are eaten and the slow are killed :fire:

[Turbo Monte]

David I checked out the site and looked through the rules, I think a few of those rules would help with what we are doing.

I am trying to help with UNBIASED input. I hate rules more than anyone. I would like to see changes that will help this Stagnet class to grow in tough times. Under the cheapstreet rules that David has pointed out, I will be the first one to go "under the bus". It says NO TURBO's, This is for the good of the class. Four years a go when I raced with the OSCA I said they should not be legal then and I was building one.



you guys are wrong .. if you want to budget race then you need to bracket race. any heads up racing will be about who will spend the money and time to make there shit fast.. racing is not cheep and never will be but its what we like to do and we will do it . to those who quit well they never had it to start or they would have went to 6.50 or 7.50 class . this class will be fast and will draw the true street cars who can not run true street anymore do to the fact there to fast its called evolution boys. this class will draw more cars than you think .. its 8.5 outlaw where the week are eaten and the slow are killed :fire:

Vern I will start out and give you all the "Props" you deserve. My hat is off to you. You are a very good racer, builder, inventive and a great person to have involved with this racing I respect you on many levels. This is why you are on top. Congratulations to you.

NOW put your flame suit on, pull those belts down tight.

8.5 was started as a "entry" or "starter" class for heads up racing. I was invented for racers that could not afford or did not want to spend what it takes to race Pro Street, Outlaw, True Street. Where are those racers, maybe the cost got to be too much for them. We don't need that in the 8.5 class. Sorry but the 8.5 class can not survive with $28,000 engines (USED) or 440 ci 880 hp NA small blocks. It just won't happen.

Your right "racing is not cheap". And Wide open rules in the 8.5 class is not the answer. I believe that there are many racers that would love to race heads up, but look at whats going on and say "no way".

You stated that we would draw true street cars. WHEN is this going to happen? I have heard this for 4 years now. When?

If things go on as they are now, you could possibly win every race next season. You may only have to beat 3 or 4 cars. Be careful with that evolution thing, it runs very close to "extinction".

[Kelly Pelrine]

If we change the rules for 8.5 to what you guys are suggesting, then there would be no more 8.5 class. Those rules would ruin the intent of the class as it was meant to be. Whether it started out as an entry level class or not, it is definitely no longer the case. It has grown into what it is today because of the people that race it (good thing). Now, it just needs the attention it deserves. This class has not even touched the level of exposure it could have. It has been a local type of class for years. Not many people know about it when you look at the grand scheme of things. Vern said it pretty well, drag racing is expensive. No matter what class you race, you are putting money into it. There will always be people who can afford to race faster and those that cannot. That is why we have several classes. I dont think completely changing the intent of any class is the answer nor will it solve the economic crisis going on today. No matter what the rules are someone will always figure out a way to push the limits. That is drag racing. You have all brought this class to the level it is now, i want to explore the possibilities of that, not nip it in the bud. Outlaw 10.5 went through the same thing. Look at where it is now. Its one of the best classes in the country. Maybe not with OSM but i hope to change that too. The cars are out there and they will come. Sometimes it just takes a little time. We need positive exposure. I think we have something awesome here, im willing to see where we can take it.

[Kelly Pelrine]

The way I see things, 8.5 NEEDS a MAJOR overhaul. A little 50# here a little #100 there is not going to stop the bleeding. This class is in serious trouble. I already know of two 8.5 racers that raced this season and have raced both the OSCA and OSM, that have recently said that they do not have the resources to "chase" this deal with cars running 60's, 50's and 40's. We are in a bad economy and things don't look better any time soon, things need to be looked at that will help with the high cost of racing.

I don't know everything (although I've been called a Knowitall more than once). And I don't have all the answers. BUT I do know that it is very possible we could only have 5 or 6 cars next year running for a less than full purse. We need to look into ideas that will bring out new racers. A little weight change or a higher 1st place money is not going to do it, it never has and never will.


On the contrary, when we upped the purse for 8.5 this year, quite a few more cars came out. I dont have all the answers either but i do think stability in any class is the basis for a good turnout. Stability in the payout and the rules. Everyone needs to READ what is written, not disect certain parts and pick & choose what they wanna see or interpret. What i am trying to do here is get the rules as fair as possible, so no one is "running away with it". Also as i have stated many times, there will be a full purse or no class at all so not sure why you said less than a full purse.

I do understand that the last year has been hard on a lot of people, including myself when it comes to money. But turning 8.5 into an index class is not the answer that much i know. Everyone is feeling the bite right now money wise. Is that really the problem or do people feel they just cant compete? The rules have for the most part been the same all along. Its not my job to tell anyone how to spend their money. And its not my job to figure out how they should win. I set the rules, you guys do what you gotta do with them. Drag racing is expensive, unfortunatly there is no way of getting around that unless you get some really great sponsors, and even if you do its still gonna cost money. Overhauling the class is not going to fix that.

[inthe5s]

{{NOW put your flame suit on, pull those belts down tight.

8.5 was started as a "entry" or "starter" class for heads up racing. I was invented for racers that could not afford or did not want to spend what it takes to race Pro Street, Outlaw, True Street. Where are those racers, maybe the cost got to be too much for them. We don't need that in the 8.5 class. Sorry but the 8.5 class can not survive with $28,000 engines (USED) or 440 ci 880 hp NA small
Your right "racing is not cheap". And Wide open rules in the 8.5 class is not the answer. I believe that there are many racers that would love to race heads up, but look at whats going on and say "no way"
You stated that we would draw true street cars. WHEN is this going to happen? I have heard this for 4 years now. When?
If things go on as they are now, you could possibly win every race next season. You may only have to beat 3 or 4 cars. Be careful with that evolution thing, it runs very close to "extinction".[/QUOTE]




8.5 may have started out as an entry level class back in the day but it has gotten faster like it has every year. back in the day the tire was thought to be the limiting factor also and to a point it is but we keep finding ways to make it work. we see every year some one say the same things that its to fast.. we can slow the class down with weight or cubic inch. but the same thing will happen ITS ABOUT THE ONE WHO WILL SPEND THERE TIME AND MONEY to get it done and if we add weight to the winner or to the one who go's past a set et then what have we done we created a bracket class and we know Fans come flocking to see bracket cars .. there is no right answer to make this a low cost class to run in when its heads up it all about the money and time to give to it .. this class needs small adjustments very small that way you get guys who will build cars for this class like it was for OSCA I know built 10 cars for OSM just befor they went belly up . you may ask what are they doing now I dont Know but some came out to osm but there car was setup for the OSCA rules and they made do . what we need is a stable race series so we get those guys who take 2 to 3 years to build there cars if you make big changes you risk the lose of a class and a following ...

[Turbo Monte]

Kelly I am on your side with this class MORE than you will ever know. I do want to correct you or clear up this Payout thing. The increased payout (along with the INCREASED entry) has done NOTHING I repeat NOTHING to help turnout (just look back through the race results). I think that you simply benefited this season some from Kevin's (OSCA) closing and picked up a couple of racers from that group, the OSM is the only "game in town" right now for 8.5 racers in the area. Lets not forget that our car count average for the season is still 9 cars. As you know all too well this won't make Payout.

Vern I in NO way want to see this turn into bracket or index type racing. Love the index guys, but I have always said. If you have to put on the brakes to win, this is not real heads up racing. Period.

I have raced and been involved with the OSCA from the beginning at Muncie (racing True and then Mild street). True street was invented so racers had an option to the Pro street class, then True street got too fast (costly). They then needed a class to bring in new racers once again. So now they invented another class Mild street (8.5). I am afraid that we may at that crossroad again, the way things are heading.

You are right and I agree completely. There is no right answer, BUT any or every rule change should be made with an eye toward reducing cost thus attracting new and more racers.

[DPouw]

Take a sewrious look at the ET's from this past year. I'll base this off what Brent should run from the MPH at ET. Vern 5.48, us 5.53, Brent 5.50's then how far of a jump is it to the next car? I'm not counting Gerald since he's not a regular. Not mentioning names, there is one 5.70's car. one 5.80's car and the rest are 5.90's and slower. Now some may have the capabilities and just haven't figured it out yet. I can say this. Art's engine makes probably 850hp and we sprayed 300 to it at ET. That being said. Just how many of the cars in the class have or will be willing to fork out the money to compete with 5.40 -5.50 et's next year or maybe faster. We're fine with the rules. Just looking at the class as a whole. Vern is right too. It's heads up, run what you brung. I'm cool with that and can support it if that is the direction Kelly decides. Hell, 5-6 cars means less rounds. Monte, maybe it's time for a new entry level class with set rules that keeps it that way.

[DPouw]

Small block N/A – 2850 lbs
Small block nitrous – 3150 lbs
Small block turbo & supercharger - 3250
Big block N/A – 3050 lbs
Big block nitrous – 3250 lbs
Big block turbo & supercharger - 3350
Fogger 50lbs.
Conventional heads deduct 50lbs.

Kelly, a couple of comments on the above weights. I don't want to make it a tech nightmare, but taking 50lbs. off us and adding 50lbs. to Vern doesn't sound right. I'll take it, don't get me wrong. In your senerio Vern would potentionally slow down and we'd speed up. Keep in mind our last pass at ET was 6mph off from the 5.53 earlier in the day. We would more than likely been in the 5.40's had the engine not lost a piston and 2 ground straps. The reason for the focus on the two add ons is to help those at the back of the pack. They will be able to drop 100lbs. from their car if a plate is used compared to the 2008 rules. Just a thought.

[veggie]

you guys are wrong .. if you want to budget race then you need to bracket race. any heads up racing will be about who will spend the money and time to make there shit fast.. racing is not cheep and never will be but its what we like to do and we will do it . to those who quit well they never had it to start or they would have went to 6.50 or 7.50 class . this class will be fast and will draw the true street cars who can not run true street anymore do to the fact there to fast its called evolution boys. this class will draw more cars than you think .. its 8.5 outlaw where the week are eaten and the slow are killed :fire:AMEN, To the first two sentences of this post!!!!!

[Turbo Monte]

Thats all well and good IF you have someone to race against!!!!!!

[ams69]

i see everyones point in all these post.......i dont see an easy fix for sure

[nascar]

i see everyones point in all these post.......i dont see an easy fix for sure

You wouldn't.:103:

[Victory Ray]

i think weight needs to come off the sb turbo cars.. but hey, in no regular so my .02 doesnt count.. ill be their next year with whatever the rules are.

[outlawstang]

I don't race 8.5 anymore but used to when they were slower. I got out of it when cars started running 5.90's. I couldn't hang $$ wise. Now they are running 5.50's and I don't see anyway to fix it or any suggestions. One question I have is how many people are running the 75301/7530T or even the 7531 for ignition? I don't think it should be an index class. Weight maybe but I don't think thats it either. Limit nos jet maybe but a pain in the ass and there are ways around that (look at NMCA CheapStreet). I think the ignition box is the key. My car is at Vern's so you never know what or who might be driving it next season. Would like to come back and race 8.5 but I'll have to team up with someone so it can be affordable.


Oh and AMS69 (Shawn) STFU you idiot and get me another beer.

[Kelly Pelrine]

David you are prob right on that. I think for the most part they are a good starting point for next year, and we can see where to go from there by next years performances. I really hate rules changes during the season, but maybe with this class getting the way it is, we should maybe consider it. Nothing major but like i said in an earlier post, maybe a lil weight here or there. I dunno really.

Here is something id like to ask... how many of you have actively tried getting sponsors? I would be willing to help or give pointers if anyone would like it. Not that i know everything there is to know about getting money or product from someone lol but if i can be of any help let me know. It never hurts to ask.

[Johnson]

Call me Kelly I need a sponsor. After the last race and Joel and Vern's tune up my father said he was out. He said that his good son ( VERN ) is who he would be with next season.:damnit:

[Kelly Pelrine]

lol, Chalie and Carlos yellin Panama didn't give it away? :102: j/k.
We'll see how some testing goes with 8.5's. if it all works out maybe i'll finally get the urge to go racing more often instead of just working on other people's cars.

Thanks again for peaking my interest.

I have my blonde moments lol. Clue us in on how your testing goes!

[ams69]

Call me Kelly I need a sponsor. After the last race and Joel and Vern's tune up my father said he was out. He said that his good son ( VERN ) is who he would be with next season.:damnit:
tracy, you love vern a whole bunch dont you :D:icon_axe:

[Johnson]

What can I say he's my little retarded gay brother and I love him so...:gay:
I just wish he would quite . Well you know:064:

By the way there ( SHAWNEE ) I am ready to be a starter on your beer drinking team :givemebeer:

[Kelly Pelrine]

Call me Kelly

Hi Kelly! lol

["panama" Jack]

I have my blonde moments lol. Clue us in on how your testing goes!



ran into a snag. testing is out till spring. gettin laid off soon. :022: but on the plus side, side work and unemployment will cover the cost to beef up some suspension i was lacking and a cage that needs updating. should be done and in 8.5 trim for world of wheels chicago show in jan. :icon_pidu: (i'm praying atleast)

[Kelly Pelrine]

Kelly I am on your side with this class MORE than you will ever know. I do want to correct you or clear up this Payout thing. The increased payout (along with the INCREASED entry) has done NOTHING I repeat NOTHING to help turnout (just look back through the race results). I think that you simply benefited this season some from Kevin's (OSCA) closing and picked up a couple of racers from that group, the OSM is the only "game in town" right now for 8.5 racers in the area. Lets not forget that our car count average for the season is still 9 cars. As you know all too well this won't make Payout.

Help me out then brotha lol! I would like to point out that the increased entry fee was the racers idea. They approched me and asked if they paid more could they win more. I said yes. And i do believe it helped. Yes there are many factors that go into making a class work not just the money, i totally agree there. Im sure Kevin going under did help a little bit but not that much. We've always had the same group of guys and have picked up more along the way. It would have been awesome to see all of them at even one event. If you look at the points results there are quite a few out there, not to mention the guys who are building cars and we dont even know about. But at least i know whatever reason they werent able to make them all wasnt because of the payout this year.

With renting the track next year, its not going to matter so much on car count as it will spectators to make payout. That is why i am doing it that way. Not that i wanna see 2 cars show, i want full fields. Its easier for me to sell this stuff to sponsors when i can say hell yea we had a ton of cars. But, not having to rely on the counts takes the pressure off and once people see we make payout every race, it will attract more cars. There are many things i need to do next year to improve overall participation. So those are the things i am working on. This series is like a race car, it only works well when everything works together. And while i know it may never be 100% id like to get as close as possible :)

[Kelly Pelrine]

ran into a snag. testing is out till spring. gettin laid off soon. :022: but on the plus side, side work and unemployment will cover the cost to beef up some suspension i was lacking and a cage that needs updating. should be done and in 8.5 trim for world of wheels chicago show in jan. :icon_pidu: (i'm praying atleast)

Oh that stinks! Im hoping i get this job ive been interviewing for for the last friggin month lol! Good Lord i will be peeved if i dont :021: But my plus side to that is i have a ton of time right now to get stuff done for the series, so im tryin to cram as much in while i can!

[Kelly Pelrine]

#4 If your still mad about getting ripped off on the Louie Vaton man purse you bought at the swap meet. Skip to the next post below.

btw this was hilarious lol! I about pee'd my pants when i read it :082:

[outlawstang]

Hum no reply to the ignition box question.

[DPouw]

Ken, atleast I think your Ken.:confused: The digital 7 box is definately a plus. But I have to honestly say that we could still run 5.50's-5.60's with just a digital 6. With what we've learned over the last few years and the tire advancements. This 8.5 tire will take about all you can throw at it off the line. Vernon and Tracy can back me up on that. Just as long as the chassis and other areas are tuned in as well. Keep in mind too, that OSM allows controllers. To my knowledge no one has used one yet! But to your point, taking the box away can be used to help slow the class to some degree. There may be a few mad racers with useless 800.00 ignitions though. LOL!. If I'm not mistaken though, there is an attachment available now for any msd ignition box including analog. This attachment makes the ignition just like a 7531, except for the data logging and traction control. Here is a link http://www.msdignition.com/pdf_catalog/2008_catalog_114-131.pdf

[GodSpeed]

Just want to say great job to all 8.5 racers !! This class rocks!! I will say I thank there is room for slight rule changes. I run an old school camaro would love to run all the races next year. As all of us know mustangs are the car to Beat!!! Lets get some old school cars in here. Would like to see 3200 Lbs for factory style spring camaro/Firebirds. These cars dont have full adjustable 4 link style rears. Lets be real the spectaters will love the rivalry!!!! We need them to survive. Kelly its been nice to get to know you. You are on the right track!!!! Lets get these cars closer together for great racing at Kill track in 09

[DOTY]

I have not been around lately, building a new car from the bottom up with out any head start just took so much money I had to pull back and recover some. I am thinking two things relating to the thread here.

#1 Vern is " correct ", classes always evolve and go faster, and another class pops up as an entry level and it just starts over again. Along those lines I think everyone here would like to see a change to just back up 8.5 as a group and prove it can stay alive and viable as there is just not enough cars out there to start spliting up into classes. I read the comment about $28,000 engines and they are inevitable and $8000 engines are just never going to compete in the same " class combo " For the good of 8.5 racing maybe there needs to be thought put into increasing car count more so than all the focus on little tweeks amoung the top 5 or 6 racers combinations. It will take something that will be of the nature that will eliminate the advantage of having the big dollar setup. Lets face it we ain't Nascar and will not draw 20 cars of the $28,000 engine type so ???? Weight will never work as it will not help the lower dollar setup guys move up in the class against guys with 3 times the dollars investment.

If you want to tighten the class you have to take away the advantage the high horserower guy has over the lower horsepower guy. In other words 1100 or 1200 hp. needs to be unmanagable.

#2 Here is some dumb and not at all thought through ideas. I can't say I am necessarilly for doing this but just as examples of what might accomplish the above.

A: If there was a desire to enforce an " MSD 6A " basic box, just force everyone to mount the entire ignition system under the hood and state all wiring to and from the box and traveling on to the distributor must be " very " clearly visable at all times. This would play havoc with the high horsepower combos and let lower powered cars leave on the mat. The point is It could be done and be effective, at least for a while.

B: Here is a stupid one, Issuing Carb Restrictor plates Yuk !!!

C: Adding weight to winners every race ??

There are smarter people with better ideas but just as examples of how it could be done. It does bring the rules enforcment problem up.

Can't slow it down without rules ...

Can't have rules without enforcment ...

Can't survive with low turnout ...

Can't have sponsors very long with low turnout ...

Can't have turnout with racers needing $28,000 engines

Once again I hate the idea of running 6.0's but that would bring in a lot of cars that just can't run the # now. Class needs more cars. The first people we need to attract is the 6.50 index guys, they already want to run in 8.5 but it is a tough jump from 6.50's to 5.50's

[quickv6]

Just an opinion from an outsider. I raced this class once the first year that it was at the valley. We had 20 cars racing. (let me put the flame suit on)I have no interest in racing this class. I cant find anyone that I know of who has raced this class in the past or that has any interest in racing it in the future. I only put up a transmission cause my good friend Vern asked me to. I will not sponsor this class next year on any level unless there are changes. So I truly have no hidden agenda here. I am expressing my opinion based on orchestrating a successful heads up race class for the last 8 years thats to this day still has as high as 28 cars at some races.

The way I see it is good and bad the racers are the ones who have made the class what it is. True Street / Pro with small tires. Every time you let the racers change the core rules with "we need this" "we need that" "Its a safety issue" (yep they will break the safety out when they need to) you will lose car count. The racers only want to go faster. They just dont understand that when they get a concession most of the other cars go faster too, not just them. You let them have what they want. You then understand you screwed up. Good luck changing it back cause they will have you hung from the highest tree. Every time you take a street car class (that was the intent of this 8.5 class guys) and let the racers have more and more true race car parts you will lose car count. The sad fact is vendor money leaves with car count or spectator interest. When the car count gets small the track will drop the class. You want to see payout? You want to see 20 cars in this class again? Move the 8.5 guys up and take it back to a Real street car class as was intended. Maybe 8.5 and 8.5 pro who knows. Real street car weights, NO LADDER BARS, Stock suspension with bolt on's etc. etc. The key is REAL STREET CARS not the tire size.

Guys I hate to hurt anyones feelings but thats what people pay to see. Vendors want to throw money at classes with big turnout. There are more drivers than full blown race cars. Make a fixed set of rules and leave them alone. Let the guy's compete with a fixed set of rules that does not change and you will see guys develop their cars from year to year and the class will tighten up over time. Some will go and others will come. What good does it do to limit a class with a tire then allow rules so the cars can make better use of the small tire to go even faster? What did you limit? Who did you hold back? You just put the guy who was close with a some what limited budget to the rear of the pack. Is it easier to spend 25K on your car today? or 25K over 5 years? No rocket science here.

[jason 408]

Just an opinion from an outsider. I raced this class once the first year that it was at the valley. We had 20 cars racing. (let me put the flame suit on)I have no interest in racing this class. I cant find anyone that I know of who has raced this class in the past or that has any interest in racing it in the future. I only put up a transmission cause my good friend Vern asked me to. I will not sponsor this class next year on any level unless there are changes. So I truly have no hidden agenda here. I am expressing my opinion based on orchestrating a successful heads up race class for the last 8 years thats to this day still has as high as 28 cars at some races.

The way I see it is good and bad the racers are the ones who have made the class what it is. True Street / Pro with small tires. Every time you let the racers change the core rules with "we need this" "we need that" "Its a safety issue" (yep they will break the safety out when they need to) you will lose car count. The racers only want to go faster. They just dont understand that when they get a concession most of the other cars go faster too, not just them. You let them have what they want. You then understand you screwed up. Good luck changing it back cause they will have you hung from the highest tree. Every time you take a street car class (that was the intent of this 8.5 class guys) and let the racers have more and more true race car parts you will lose car count. The sad fact is vendor money leaves with car count or spectator interest. When the car count gets small the track will drop the class. You want to see payout? You want to see 20 cars in this class again? Move the 8.5 guys up and take it back to a Real street car class as was intended. Maybe 8.5 and 8.5 pro who knows. Real street car weights, NO LADDER BARS, Stock suspension with bolt on's etc. etc. The key is REAL STREET CARS not the tire size.

Guys I hate to hurt anyones feelings but thats what people pay to see. Vendors want to throw money at classes with big turnout. There are more drivers than full blown race cars. Make a fixed set of rules and leave them alone. Let the guy's compete with a fixed set of rules that does not change and you will see guys develop their cars from year to year and the class will tighten up over time. Some will go and others will come. What good does it do to limit a class with a tire then allow rules so the cars can make better use of the small tire to go even faster? What did you limit? Who did you hold back? You just put the guy who was close with a some what limited budget to the rear of the pack. Is it easier to spend 25K on your car today? or 25K over 5 years? No rocket science here. This is so true !!!!! with no rules in 8.5 they have gotten way to fast for the beginer racer to get it to it. It is also what happen to true street / xs because with no rules the guys in 8.5 that should have moved up stay in 8.5 because the payout is the same and the nothing as far as rules saying they cant . Its hard to go back once you let the cat out of the bag but its what needs to be done to save it . Becuase with the old osca rules ( when a 5.90 was fast ) a 6.50 guy could move up to 8.5 with out a 25 grand motor change . 8.5 was a entry level race program . Now its sso on a little tire ! If you want to build a car to race now a 8.5 car and a xs car are the same motor and chassis . There is nothing to bridge the gap between 6.50 and xs . And for that you have no new racers coming up !

[317Coupe]

Looks to me that a simple and quick solution would be just requiring a BFGoodrich 275/50R15 tire. Make it one stage of nitrous, no controllers or timers. If a turbo car showed and dominated then adjust the rules for no boost controllers. No one car, especially the higher hp cars are gonna run consistant on this tire. Do not allow the MT or hoosier drag radials, just BFG's. The lower hp cars are actually gonna hook better and run closer to what the higher hp cars will run since they are gonna have to tame the cars down. Just my .02 from a former 8.5 racer.

[inthe5s]

This WAS a Entry Level class when OSCA had it now it has grown up and is fun to watch there needs to be a New class for enty level guys Do not F*& UP the 8.5 OUTLAW the NAME says it ALL ..

[Johnson]

If I had 28k in my motor I would quite. I have less then that in my whole damn car. But hell my sister owns the chassis. HA HA You got beat by a GIRLS CAR.:whip:
You all can do what you want with the class, but please put the info up early so as to not make us adjust OH I MEAN THEM ADJUST late into the off season. I will be out with my SISTER'S stock torque arm turd next year so whatever.
well Vern is rite the name says it all.
WAS MILD STREET
WAS 8.5
NOW 8.5 OUTLAW
They said the same things about 10.5 outlaw......

[Victory Ray]

i dont know vern, but i agree with him.

the class is called "outlaw 8.5", not "entry-level 8.5"

just because someone wants to invest 25K in a motor combo doesnt mean that it is going to be the class norm. im sure that their are guys running fast on combos that cost 1/3 of the numbers being thrown around. remember, horsepower isnt all that makes these cars go down the track.

no matter what class someone enters, there is always someone that is going to try to push the limits of the ruels(and the tire in this case). this is a great class and has a lot of people building cars and combos for it. thers no need to make a bunch of big changes to it. (aside from taking 150lbs off the sb turbo cars)LOL...

[jason 408]

8.5 hade the most cars in it this year for many resons . 1st it is the combantion of mild street and true street 2nd its the only 8.5 going on right now . The problem is that you cant bring in new cars to the field when other than the first race every car in the finals was 5.6s or faster . I agree with vern that its not broke dont fix it but you have to have a entry level class or the hole program suffers with low car count .I argee that 8.5 was the only class that had any car count all year . There was 8 or 9 of the same guys that made all of the races this year and you will prob have 8 or 9 of the same guys next year . But you in the long run you have to be able to bring new cars in . But like i said before once the cat out of bag it hard to get him back in . But dont get me wrong with no xs we will be bolting 8.5s on to !

[Turbo Monte]

Quick You are right on the money.

Jason I agree with you 100% as well. One correction though, There were ONLY 3 cars that made every race. I will mention Scott Groves, he made all but the last because of engine problems. So that would make 4........

[quickv6]

This WAS a Entry Level class when OSCA had it now it has grown up and is fun to watch there needs to be a New class for enty level guys Do not F*& UP the 8.5 OUTLAW the NAME says it ALL ..

That was my only point. The way I see it you have two choices. This class will never have 20 cars. You either need to re-invent the wheel with a new set of rules which will hurt the guys that race this class. or You need create a new class with a whole new set of rules to bring new blood in to the mix. There is no tweaking of these rules going to add more racers.

[nascar]

I've noticed that the people that have been running OSM and supported it prior to 2007 are not participating in input for the 2009 year. Is that because they have lost interest and are not planning on running next year??

I'm referring to Howel Motorsports, Scott Grove, Brent Bramwell, etc. Where are all the guys and gals that ran this class prior to 2007??

If this class is going to continue with a minimum of 9-10 cars they need to participate and express their ideas and concerns.

Just my .02 cents

[Kelly Pelrine]

8.5 has evolved into what it is today. The rules have generally been the same since i added it in 3 years ago. Prior to that the Valley kept basically the same rules as well. While some Mild Street cars did cross over, i felt that MS was a different class altogether and being an Outlaw series, i felt Outlaw 8.5 fit our program better which is why i went with those rules. What is happening here is not uncommon at all. This is what happens to every heads up class sooner or later. People are figuring out how to go faster with the set rules. For whatever the reasons may be, some do it quicker than others its that simple. From time to time the rules will need adjusting but not to the extent that they ruin the class intent. I dont know why this is such a shocker to some. We already have 3 "entry" level classes. I dont see the need to make another 8.5 type class. We have many classes in place for people to choose from. Build to fit the rules.

Also, i know several other organizations allow sponsor money to dictate their rules and i do not agree with that at all. That has never happened here and it never will. Our sponsors are proud to support our classes, racers and the series as a whole. They invest because they feel we have something to offer them and i am proud to have everyone on board that we have had over the years. Not every potential sponsor will agree with what we are about, may not feel it is right for their business, or want to support us and that is understandable. Thats just business, i dont see any reason to be negative about that.

[Kelly Pelrine]

Lonnie, good talking with you today! :)

[GodSpeed]

Kelly We have to make a rule change these cars are way apart. Like I said before I would love to run every race and so would everyone I know with these cars. If I have to pack my car into the wall or take someone else out or rebuild my engine after every race I just dont have that kind of money or time most guys if there honest dont either.These big # I see are great but they will more than likely end the common and above guys 8.5 future.I like the 6AL. AND NOS controller delete program. This will safely slow these cars down and still make for great racing. No timers eather. If there was a race tomorow and there was 3 or 4 cars in the 5.36 to 5.50 range how many guys would honestly go. I know the valley race had a good turn out but I dont thank it would be long lived with such a wide spread.

[regalpimp1978]

i think that something has to be done but as for what im not sure .i was on the way back to pack up after first round at ET and bramwell said it best (we are going way to fast on these tires ) and i would have to agree .if you step back and look the last 2 races that 8.5 tires have ran at there has been cars that have wrecked .i havent posted about rules in the past bcuz i didnt want it to seem i was bitchin cuz we havent been in the top 5 every race .but now its about saftey ! and as for rule change you can change them all ya want but unless they are inforced at each race and after every round they are not worth anything if the cars dont go over the scales after every round you could take all the weight out or even hook up another stage of nos .i understand that takes manpower and time but we are running a class that rules are in place and need to be inforced . as for car count i think the reason for small car count is that every race was at a diff track .now kilkare is the home track i look for this to bring in more cars than the old travelling show ..just my 2 cents

[Kelly Pelrine]

You are absolutely correct about the rules being enforced. With some of the tracks we went to this year and them not having scales it was not possible. Thats is one reason i want to be at Kilkare, we can weigh everyone. Also, i will have tech people who actually tech for our rules, no more BS there. I wish i had learned some of the things i did on race day and not afterwards because i would have been able to do something about it then. Im tired of gettin jerked around by the people i am supposed to be able to trust. Lesson learned.

Wherever we go from now on i will promise this, there will not be any issues with tech not doing their job and tech will be strictly enforced. If anyone does have an issue or feels that something is not right on race day let me know immediately. Everyone needs to make sure they are up to date on things. I apologize to anyone who feels they were not treated fairly in that regard.

[inthe5s]

OK I see some of you say we are to fast on this tire well in some cases its true .the track conditions need to be very good the valley has the best we have ran on bar none. I wrecked the car at ET it was not all it could be. But I feel I could have prevented that wreck if I had the proper setup to Handel the ET and MPH I was running .those who have looked at my car Know its a basic setup tuned to the max. There is no more to be had from that chassis it needs a complete overhaul to be safe and run the number I know I can run. I feel I can run faster on the 8.5 as soon As i update the chassis to something that was meant to run those times. not this basic street car deal I have now. If I do run next year in 8.5 It will be fast and on a string . My goal is take it to the edge and then push it over. if you ask why i may not run the series I am looking at testing new products with the new ride ON 8.5s of course and to help others go fast . product rep so to speak. And maybe just maybe put on another race or two..

[Johnson]

I want to be the first to buy the VERN HOUSE Camo Hat. :biggrin:

[quickv6]

I want to be the first to buy the VERN HOUSE Camo Hat. :biggrin:

Hey I was wanting that hat myself. I am thinking we can have a bid war for the hat on ebay.

[bramwell]

I've noticed that the people that have been running OSM and supported it prior to 2007 are not participating in input for the 2009 year. Is that because they have lost interest and are not planning on running next year??

I'm referring to Howel Motorsports, Scott Grove, Brent Bramwell, etc. Where are all the guys and gals that ran this class prior to 2007??

If this class is going to continue with a minimum of 9-10 cars they need to participate and express their ideas and concerns.

Just my .02 cents

The reason I have not been expressing any concerns is I am trying to hang on in this tough economy it has been quite depressing for a car salesman these days. IF things dont pick up wont be doing much racing! On the bright side my car needs nothing except four tires to go racing!:D

[DPouw]

Honesty, most can and have voiced opinions on how the class has evolved over the past years and yes we are probably going to fast on the tires safety wise, so are other classes in that regard. We can argue that all day long. Plus, what bothers me, there is a gap between the front and the rest of the class. I'd like to slow it down myself, but there's really just not a simple way of doing it without overhauling the class. Kelly has stated that the class will run as an OUTLAW type class. Therefore, we all have to choose to run the series or not. It's that simple. Not trying to be an A$$. I just hope to keep the class car count it currently has or more. Some of the Extreme Street cars will need to step down, slower 8.5 cars will need to step it up or new cars. I personally can easily see it as a 5-6 car class with 5.50-5.60 times the norm. Only time will tell. We will be there supporting the class as usual, no matter what direction it goes.

[nascar]

Honesty, most can and have voiced opinions on how the class has evolved over the past years and yes we are probably going to fast on the tires safety wise, so are other classes in that regard. We can argue that all day long. Plus, what bothers me, there is a gap between the front and the rest of the class. I'd like to slow it down myself, but there's really just not a simple way of doing it without overhauling the class. Kelly has stated that the class will run as an OUTLAW type class. Therefore, we all have to choose to run the series or not. It's that simple. Not trying to be an A$$. I just hope to keep the class car count it currently has or more. Some of the Extreme Street cars will need to step down, slower 8.5 cars will need to step it up or new cars. I personally can easily see it as a 5-6 car class with 5.50-5.60 times the norm. Only time will tell. We will be there supporting the class as usual, no matter what direction it goes.


We maybe supporting the class from the sidelines. I understand that this is an Outlaw class, but something has to be done to make it more competitive for all. There is to big a gap between the front and the back for all to come back.

It is to expensive to try and build a new combo from the one a person already has. I think some time needs to be spent looking at the rules. If you don't the car count will be down after a race or two and maybe spectators, too.

This is not to say to take away the creativity of someone that wants to try something new, but, on the other hand, when it is tried and it obviously is a better set up then it needs to be taken a look at.

It has also gotten to the point where driver reaction time is not a part of determing the outcome of the race. That has always been one of the "bragging" points of racing. Can't make up that much time on the tree with the large gap between the fastest to the slowest.

If it continues as anything goes except tire is 26 x 8.5 x 15 as designated or 9" as measured the class will not survive. With the improvement of the tire it is not really the limiting factor anymore.

We have been at this for four years and this is the 1st full year with OSM. It has been a lot of fun with a lot of disappointment, but what the hell. I guess I need to go back to an entry street or mild street concept.

[quickv6]

Lonnie, good talking with you today! :)

Same to you Kelly. I think your quick street class will be a big hit. Just get the word out.

[KenB]

I'll give my 2 cents even though I don't really have anything to do with the class. You can keep it outlaw style and still control the cars with rules a bit.

Take a look at Lynch. One of the baddest 10.5 cars out there. But he's not legal for NMRA 10.5 But he continues to push the limits and go to the all out outlaw races.

So maybe the series moves in this direction. An 8.5 tire with some power limiting rules. Then Vern can put on a few "Outlaw" run what you brung 8.5 races.

I don't see how limiting the power would really be all that big of an issue for most combos. Limit turbo size, nitrous kits/size, superchargers/pulley size. NA cars run light, so add some weight.


Ken

[Kelly Pelrine]

How do you guys feel about a nostalgia rule for 1980 and older cars based on suspension?

[Kelly Pelrine]

The way I see it is good and bad the racers are the ones who have made the class what it is. Every time you let the racers change the core rules with "we need this" "we need that" "Its a safety issue" (yep they will break the safety out when they need to) you will lose car count. The racers only want to go faster. They just dont understand that when they get a concession most of the other cars go faster too, not just them. You let them have what they want. You then understand you screwed up. Good luck changing it back cause they will have you hung from the highest tree.


Quoted for truth.

I make rules based on combinations not individuals. I dont know all the reasons some people go faster than others. Not enough money, time, dont choose to do what they need to do to be competitive. They are all very valid and real reasons. If you dont feel you'll be competitive in a class, maybe look to another class that you feel you will be within your means. Am i saying i want people to leave this class, no way. But is it fair to ask for rules based on those reasons when others can and will do what you wont? If someone came to me and said they have tried everything they can (within reason) and they got nothing left without getting some kinda break, then i would most certainly look into it but i still cannot look at it from the individuals situation alone. In order to be fair i would have to look at the combination. The gap that exists in this class exists in every heads up class. The set of rules in the first post of this thread allow for anyone to have the potential to run the number. Why that hasnt happend yet is up to the individual. I know many organizations that make rules changes all the time and for the reasons listed above. I also hear the bickering that goes on because of those changes. One of the reasons i started this series is because of this. I do not want to handle rules like other people do and see classes ruined because of those mistakes. We need to get heads up racing back to where it used to be.

[GodSpeed]

I thank just like your x/street rule leafspring and G body cars should have that same weight break. In these cases it is a fair request. There are a hand full of these cars out here that love this 8.5 racing but because of traction susp. weekness none of them are competative. Yes some can start over and buy mustangs with every bolt on race part Known to man lets keep the cars that we know will run this class in the class. I know I can cut my camaro up put ladder bars & coil overs on. This ends my racing in other 8.5 racing body.A fair request thats all thanks.

[Kelly Pelrine]

Chassis guys... is there something these types of cars can do without butchering up the car to improve performance or are they at a clear disadvantage compared to the late model cars?

[inthe5s]

Leaf spring cars can work fine with the correct parts.

[Kelly Pelrine]

What parts would be needed?

[GodSpeed]

I would like to know what these parts consist of maby im missing some?

[GodSpeed]

If this is so why did the fastest guy in the class switch from a G body to a mustang ?

[regalpimp1978]

Dave even if we were to get a weight break my ol heavy pig wouldnt be able to make it its 115 to 130 over now just to make the % right unless i got a new aluminum block or fiberglass doors,fenders . this a full framed car .:sad: i know from talking to you your in the same boat as far as weight goes . we could go get us a cookie cutter and fit in lol:064: hahaha:044:

[inthe5s]

If this is so why did the fastest guy in the class switch from a G body to a mustang ?

if you must Know I sold the G body and the Mustang was donated I just used my motor that I had setting on the back burner to run this year .. If you want to see a leaf spring car go fast donate it and I will show you. you pay for the parts you get the car back when I am done for the year.. I cant give the go fast out for free its how I feed my family..

[inthe5s]

also if you look at dave days g body 5.89 with a 433 big block dart 325 heads no port work on heads I ported the intake myself and a custom carb on a 400 shot 3400lbs. with some time spent on it you will see low 70s. all it needs is some port work and a cam change then it will be in the 50s but I cant spend his money so it is what it is

[GodSpeed]

You say if you must know as if your mad just a question... But as you say the car would still be 4 tenths slower than your mustang. I am not knocking you that G car or your work it speaks for its self. We just need a fair brake to work off of.

[inthe5s]

You say if you must know as if your mad just a question... But as you say the car would still be 4 tenths slower than your mustang. I am not knocking you that G car or your work it speaks for its self. We just need a fair brake to work off of.

I am not mad . you asked why the switch . as his car is 4 tenths off well He spends his money on other things and not motor and trans combo if I put my motor converter trans in his car and set it up like I would run it then it could run 30s also maybe faster. I was just showing how well a g body can run on such a small motor its a BIG BLOCK thats small for a BB combo. like I said if someone wants they can donate the chassis I can prove it . not looking to keep anyone's car BTW . I do the work and who ever puts up the chassis keeps the changes. I keep my motor trans converter of course

[jason 408]

We maybe supporting the class from the sidelines. I understand that this is an Outlaw class, but something has to be done to make it more competitive for all. There is to big a gap between the front and the back for all to come back.

It is to expensive to try and build a new combo from the one a person already has. I think some time needs to be spent looking at the rules. If you don't the car count will be down after a race or two and maybe spectators, too.

This is not to say to take away the creativity of someone that wants to try something new, but, on the other hand, when it is tried and it obviously is a better set up then it needs to be taken a look at.

It has also gotten to the point where driver reaction time is not a part of determing the outcome of the race. That has always been one of the "bragging" points of racing. Can't make up that much time on the tree with the large gap between the fastest to the slowest.

If it continues as anything goes except tire is 26 x 8.5 x 15 as designated or 9" as measured the class will not survive. With the improvement of the tire it is not really the limiting factor anymore.

We have been at this for four years and this is the 1st full year with OSM. It has been a lot of fun with a lot of disappointment, but what the hell. I guess I need to go back to an entry street or mild street concept.

So true !!! The class 2 years ago was a 5.80s to 90s class this year it was a 5.50s to 60s class we have already seen a 30 this year so it will prob be a 30 40s class next year . There is just way to much gap for the front to the back fo the class to bring in new blood .The funny thing is the front of the field ( 4 to 5 cars ) are farliy tight 5.40s to 5.60s and the back of the field (6 to 8 cars ) is fairly tight 590 to 6.20s . But the problem is that a 6.0 to 5.40 is over a second faster in the 1/4 mile . It hard to kept guys showing up when there getting beat by a second and 10 mph . Lets say a guy in 6.50 step up and run some heads up . Well 6.50 in the 1/8 is about 10.20 in the 1/4 and the guys are going 5.40s in the 1/8 witch is about 8.30s in the 1/4 . Heads up racing cost alot and you have to pay to play but it hard to get a guy to want to get his feet wet when the field is 2 seconds faster . He would have to build a new motor and build a new chassis just to try it out . Just like you said if you cant be competitive maybe look at another class and they will, but 8.5 is the lowest heads up class you have thats not index so people go looking else where . BUT I KNOW :deadhorse

[GodSpeed]

Your saying you can make a 68 camaro stock style rear no ladder bars without cutting it up n/a go 5.30 at weight with BB chevy? My car your combo lets talk. It must return with its factory nose lol !!!!!! If we work out a deal can you get that weight brake??????

[Kelly Pelrine]

8.5 is the lowest heads up class you have thats not index so people go looking else where . BUT I KNOW :deadhorse

Quick Street is heads up

[inthe5s]

Your saying you can make a 68 camaro stock style rear no ladder bars without cutting it up n/a go 5.30 at weight with BB chevy? My car your combo lets talk. It must return with its factory nose lol !!!!!! If we work out a deal can you get that weight brake??????

weight brake :110: I can work with what we have . be ready to buy some good parts we can have a winning combo ... mmm stock nose or the one thats on it ???? we can fix what We fu*K up if it happens. now I have to tell you it will have to be 25.5 next year 5.30s is the et that requires it just to let you know..

[inthe5s]

How about a slower 8.5 class limited to small block N20 200 shot max conventional heads stock suspension 3200 lbs............ call it limited 8.5

[jason 408]

Dam vern not only can you make a car just flat out fly . But you can come up with a fair set of rules . Thats what prob what you need a lower class limiting the jet size and conventional head and stock suspention . I even like the name :biggrin:

[GodSpeed]

Limited 8.5 sounds good must include conventional B/B 3250# stock style susp. Lets do it. Still conforms to other class rules.

[inthe5s]

I have been giving it more thought there would have to be an aproved head list. if you have a head thats not on the list you run outlaw class or you have to weigh more to keep it fair and slower . if this looks like something all you guys want I will do the home work on it and present it to kelly and see if it can happen.

[inthe5s]

Limited 8.5 sounds good must include conventional B/B 3250# stock style susp. Lets do it. Still conforms to other class rules.

what heads you run

[VengeanceEnt]

Why the heck does there need to ba another 8.5 class? Quick Street is intended for the cars that can't keep up with the guy's in 8.5! You can run 8.5's 10.5's whatever as long as the car is registered.

Maybe some of the guys saying that their car's don't fit in 8.5 should run Q.S untill they do fit in or can hang in there!

If you read the rules for Q.S it doesn't matter if your a 6.0 car or a 7.2 car. The field is split in half and that way no one feels cheated!

How about some weight for Non Conventional heads in 8.5???? Say 50 Lbs across the board? All combos!

[bramwell]

Why the heck does there need to ba another 8.5 class? Quick Street is intended for the cars that can't keep up with the guy's in 8.5! You can run 8.5's 10.5's whatever as long as the car is registered.

Maybe some of the guys saying that their car's don't fit in 8.5 should run Q.S untill they do fit in or can hang in there!

If you read the rules for Q.S it doesn't matter if your a 6.0 car or a 7.2 car. The field is split in half and that way no one feels cheated!

How about some weight for Non Conventional heads in 8.5???? Say 50 Lbs across the board? All combos!

I agree on that head deal.

[Kelly Pelrine]

You guys think the answer is to add a new class in every time because there is a gap in the et's? Sorry thats not happening and it also wont fix the problem. We dont need two 8.5 classes.

[GodSpeed]

I run Dart heads. This I Thank is a good fix. Will bring cars from old osca and bounty class.Kelly thank about it. Limited 8.5!!!!!

[GodSpeed]

Thats right 540 you can sandbag and finder race with a 1432 tire if your car will take the tire!!! LIMITED 8.5 LETS DO IT !!!!!!

[Kelly Pelrine]

Thats right 540 you can sandbag and finder race with a 1432 tire if your car will take the tire!!! LIMITED 8.5 LETS DO IT !!!!!!

Dave take a look at this post, im doing your homework for ya lol:

http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=85598

[GodSpeed]

kELLY my car has all the calvert racing bars and springs. let them know its an 8.5 tire good luck thanks.

[Kelly Pelrine]

kELLY my car has all the calvert racing bars and springs. let them know its an 8.5 tire good luck thanks.

Will do. Hmm i dunno what to tell ya hun, i cant tune the car for ya but just tryin to help where i can :smile:

[jason 408]

Here is a good start for some small block ford heads vern ! these are all street style heads nothing radical . Got this off nmras rules . Ford OEM 289/302/351/5.0 Windsor & OEM 4.6/5.4L
FRPP GT-40/GT-40P/GT-40X/GT-40Y, N351, J302 & Z304
FRPP 4.6 2V & 4V Cylinder Heads
Edelbrock Performer & Performer RPM PN# 60329, 60359, 60279, 60229, 60259, 60269
Edelbrock Victor Jr. A/C and CNC PN# 77169, 77179, 77189, 77389, 77399, 61269, 61279, 61309
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge (Non-R) and Track Heat Heads
Trick Flow Specialties “Street Heat”
Trick Flow Specialties Twisted Wedge “R” Cylinder Heads
Brodix ST 5.0 Aluminum Cylinder Heads, PN# ST 5.0, ST 5.0R
Brodix Track 1, T1X
Holley 5.0 Aluminum Cylinder Heads, PN# 300-573, 574, 575, 576, 577, 578, 579
World Products Roush 180, Windsor Jr., PN# 53030, 23030
World Products Roush 200, Windsor Sr., PN# 53040
Dart Pro 1 A/C & CNC 170cc, 195cc, 210cc, 225cc
Air Flow Research 165, 185, 205, 225
Canfield PN# 18-350, 20-450, 20-475
RHS 180cc, 200cc & 215cc (Iron & Aluminum)

[GodSpeed]

Ok Kelly I know a little abought tuning my car. There is not another spring car in this class of 8.5 cars the black nova did show up for Verns race but as with me traction put him to the back of the pack.Just trying to get a fair shake in this off time. Vern said it best to run with these boys next year in outlaw 8.5 youll need a 25.5 car!!!!! All more the reason to have limited 8.5 class!!!!! Vern maby you can put this into your next at the valley. Kelly you should look into this!!!!!

[cox motorsports]

Dam, Guys Im back. Im not grounded anymore. Godspeed Ive seen 7sec. caltrac cars before. Hell my turds been 5.71 on stock susp. at 3485lbs. on a 100 shot.

[veggie]

Two 8.5 classes? C'mon guy's...

[cox motorsports]

Two 8.5 classes? C'mon guy's...

Why 2 ????????????????????

[cox motorsports]

Dam, Guys Im back. Im not grounded anymore. Godspeed Ive seen 7sec. caltrac cars before. Hell my turds been 5.71 on stock susp. at 3485lbs. on a 100 shot.

And my shit is junk.........:icon_pidu:

[VengeanceEnt]

I suggested that this be moved to the Saloon as well!

OSM DOES NOT NEED A SECOND 8.5 CLASS! DROP IT IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!

[GodSpeed]

The fair brake not looking good. you will never see an 8.5 caltrack car competitive 10.5 maby? G body guys I dont get it. I dont see one competitive on 8.5 eather? Enough said by me on this like I said not looking good. I will say the limited 8.5 or something like this has a lot of racers on board !!!!!!!!!!!!

[jason 408]

OSM NEEDS I LIMITED 8.5 CLASS will not get one . But it needs one if this many people are talking about it then there is a need . This is the most action this section has ever had . there is a reson for that . If osm dont want to do it that is kellys call . There is alot of people and sponcers that look at this site . Someone will get one going we were just hoping to stay with osm and not have to else were thats why everyone keeps talking about it

[inthe5s]

I am going to talk with Terry this weekend to see if anything will happen on its own for 8.5 next year. if not I will try and bring a limited 8.5 race to the valley. if this is what you guys want I will help you get it . If this happens I ask for your help also. would need help locating sponsors and bring racers to this new entry level class. there will be rules but easy to tech rules so some may not like it but it will be the only way to keep it entry level and a tight race .

[VengeanceEnt]

The fair brake not looking good. you will never see an 8.5 caltrack car competitive 10.5 maby? G body guys I dont get it. I dont see one competitive on 8.5 eather? Enough said by me on this like I said not looking good. I will say the limited 8.5 or something like this has a lot of racers on board !!!!!!!!!!!!

Vern says he can make one competitive. Take your car to him and let him work his 8.5 magic on it.

I personally say you can make one competitive. Other guys are doing it. Maybe with a larger tire but with the new 8.5's out I believe it can be done!

It costs $$$$$$ to go fast and be competitive! This isn't a street class anymore!

[jason 408]

BULID IT AND THEY WILL COME :082: :daw:

[cox motorsports]

Vern says he can make one competitive. Take your car to him and let him work his 8.5 magic on it.

I personally say you can make one competitive. Other guys are doing it. Maybe with a larger tire but with the new 8.5's out I believe it can be done!

It costs $$$$$$ to go fast and be competitive! This isn't a street class anymore!

True, its not a street class anymore your right, But go back and look at the 8.5 feild this year and tell me that the feild was close! Its not. there is more 5.90 to 6.0 cars out there then anything. Your outlaw 8.5 might have 4 or 6 cars in the 2009. But then again your right it takes money to race but the average guy cant spend the money as some can. Cuz it takes Money. So what i think guys are getting at they want to race heads-up on a bracket-guy budget.

[inthe5s]

Vern says he can make one competitive. Take your car to him and let him work his 8.5 magic on it.

I personally say you can make one competitive. Other guys are doing it. Maybe with a larger tire but with the new 8.5's out I believe it can be done!

It costs $$$$$$ to go fast and be competitive! This isn't a street class anymore!

it can be done like you said it cost $$$$$ for good parts .it can be done without the 25.5 cage but you will not be able to run it do to the ET,s that have be reached.

[mfoss]

I am going to talk with Terry this weekend to see if anything will happen on its own for 8.5 next year. if not I will try and bring a limited 8.5 race to the valley. if this is what you guys want I will help you get it . If this happens I ask for your help also. would need help locating sponsors and bring racers to this new entry level class. there will be rules but easy to tech rules so some may not like it but it will be the only way to keep it entry level and a tight race .

No exotic heads for small or big block. No nos controllers no 7531 boxes. And limit the nos jet. You will get alot of racers. DONT make it a smallblock class only. There is alot more cars out there that are 5.70-6.teen.

[Tino]

Listen to you! No this and no that :D Oh yea and not just small blocks ;)

[cox motorsports]

No exotic heads for small or big block. No nos controllers no 7531 boxes. And limit the nos jet. You will get alot of racers. DONT make it a smallblock class only. There is alot more cars out there that are 5.70-6.teen.

You big sissy no 7531!!!!:022::044:

[VengeanceEnt]

Everybody makes this big deal about the 7531 box. How many guys actually know and understand how to use one? AND actually use it to it's potential?

[jason 408]

with 600 inches and 3 kits :044:he is going to need a 7531 ;) :110:

[Tino]

Everybody makes this big deal about the 7531 box. How many guys actually know and understand how to use one? AND actually use it to it's potential?


Let me guess probably just you ... Right? :D

[mfoss]

Im just helping you guys out. I have the big balls to run outlaw 8.5. Just tell me the rules and ill be there.

[jason 408]

Everybody makes this big deal about the 7531 box. How many guys actually know and understand how to use one? AND actually use it to it's potential?
the top 4 in 8.5

[cox motorsports]

Let me guess probably just you ... Right? :D

Hey Tino be nice. You might get grounded,:102: I did !!!!!!!!!!!:044:

[Tino]

I think the MSD 6 works just fine. I've had it for 15 years now and it still works great. I have it on a quick disconnect cause I use it on the old John Deer also. :D

[cox motorsports]

Im just helping you guys out. I have the big balls to run outlaw 8.5. Just tell me the rules and ill be there.

Stop it. :082::082:

[VengeanceEnt]

Let me guess probably just you ... Right? :D

Actually, I have played with it very little and understand about that.

BUT, I will know how to use it to any advantage when the time comes.

[jason 408]

who need a 7531 with a ams1000 and big stuff .:102:

[Tino]

who need a 7531 with a ams1000 and big stuff .:102:


Ol ball less probably will want to ban those also! :D

[inthe5s]

give me a 6al and a 8979 add on box and I can do the same ...

[jason 408]

al right boys im going to bed some of us have to work for a living . vern get working on the limited 8.5 , justin get them big tires on you car !!! foss you got that motor yet??? tino call rob and tell him to work faster and brandon put some spray on that bitch and let here eat:D

[Johnson]

:022:
I just want to race so make some damn rules up and lets GET IT ON

VERN you took that the wrong way PUT YOUR PANTS BACK ON:gay:

[GodSpeed]

Vern listening to what the body is saying will heal the body!!!!! you wouldnt put a cast on your hand if your foot was broke.... 8.5 guys are asking for limited for a reason. To question someones wealth get real lets all go pro stock racing!!!!!! Vern or kelly I will help get this on let me know limited 8.5 watch it grow!!!!!!

[cox motorsports]

Vern listening to what the body is saying will heal the body!!!!! you wouldnt put a cast on your hand if your foot was broke.... 8.5 guys are asking for limited for a reason. To question someones wealth get real lets all go pro stock racing!!!!!! Vern or kelly I will help get this on let me know limited 8.5 watch it grow!!!!!!

Godspeed Im in 50/50 for pro stock racing!;);

[cox motorsports]

How do you guys feel about a nostalgia rule for 1980 and older cars based on suspension?

Im all for it. I need all I can get with my dumptruck.:102:

[inthe5s]

Vern listening to what the body is saying will heal the body!!!!! you wouldnt put a cast on your hand if your foot was broke.... 8.5 guys are asking for limited for a reason. To question someones wealth get real lets all go pro stock racing!!!!!! Vern or kelly I will help get this on let me know limited 8.5 watch it grow!!!!!!

OK now you lost me what are you saying

[nascar]

No exotic heads for small or big block. No nos controllers no 7531 boxes. And limit the nos jet. You will get alot of racers. DONT make it a smallblock class only. There is alot more cars out there that are 5.70-6.teen.


What is an exotic head-Blue Thunder, Profiler, Big Duke, Yates, or what?? I don't know of anybody running a controller at this time ( 8.5). The 7531 box can be duplicated with the add ons that are available for other boxes. If you limit the jet size are you talking just a NOS class??

[bramwell]

Im all for it. I need all I can get with my dumptruck.:102:

That would help my old 79 out another weight break for the little afr headed small block.

[cox motorsports]

That would help my old 79 out another weight break for the little afr headed small block.

Big Bramwell when you get a chance call me 513-490-1907

[jason 408]

[QUOTE=nascar;23460]What is an exotic head-Blue Thunder, Profiler, Big Duke, Yates, or what?? yes all these are exotic heads . inline street style heads . you can limit nos jet size for small and big block and since adjust weight for na . should be pretty easy since you basicly same heads on both i. it you alow 200 shot of spray deduct so many pound to make na guys the same . here is a example of a nos pro street they limit nos size and adjust weight for na
NITROUS OXIDE: Nitrous oxide entries are restricted to a single stage fogger or a single stage nitrous plate (or dual, single stage, nitrous plates for dual carb entries only). Nitrous line size is unrestricted. Nitrous jet limitations for big block nitrous engines over 530ci are as follows: Fogger: .030 maximum, Single plate: .096 maximum; Dual plates (two carbs only): .069 maximum. Big block nitrous engines under 530ci, and all small block nitrous combinations permitted to utilize a fogger system with a .046 maximum jet size. and some weights Weight Breaks
Weight Breaks for nos pro street
ENGINE INDUCTION WEIGHT



Big Block Na 3000

Big Block Nitrous Oxide 3200

Small Block Na 2700

Small Block Nitrous Oxide 2800

[GodSpeed]

What I am saying is alot of guys are asking for a limited 8.5 class sounds like people want to get on board thats the body. I still see a need for outlaw also. I will help all I can in this limited class let me Know!!!

[cox motorsports]

[QUOTE=nascar;23460]What is an exotic head-Blue Thunder, Profiler, Big Duke, Yates, or what?? yes all these are exotic heads . inline street style heads . you can limit nos jet size for small and big block and since adjust weight for na . should be pretty easy since you basicly same heads on both i. it you alow 200 shot of spray deduct so many pound to make na guys the same . here is a example of a nos pro street they limit nos size and adjust weight for na
NITROUS OXIDE: Nitrous oxide entries are restricted to a single stage fogger or a single stage nitrous plate (or dual, single stage, nitrous plates for dual carb entries only). Nitrous line size is unrestricted. Nitrous jet limitations for big block nitrous engines over 530ci are as follows: Fogger: .030 maximum, Single plate: .096 maximum; Dual plates (two carbs only): .069 maximum. Big block nitrous engines under 530ci, and all small block nitrous combinations permitted to utilize a fogger system with a .046 maximum jet size. and some weights Weight Breaks
Weight Breaks for nos pro street
ENGINE INDUCTION WEIGHT



Big Block Na 3000

Big Block Nitrous Oxide 3200

Small Block Na 2700

Small Block Nitrous Oxide 2800

Only a 100 lb swing from na to nos small block:075: Stop it.

[inthe5s]

[QUOTE=nascar;23460]What is an exotic head-Blue Thunder, Profiler, Big Duke, Yates, or what?? yes all these are exotic heads . inline street style heads . you can limit nos jet size for small and big block and since adjust weight for na . should be pretty easy since you basicly same heads on both i. it you alow 200 shot of spray deduct so many pound to make na guys the same . here is a example of a nos pro street they limit nos size and adjust weight for na
NITROUS OXIDE: Nitrous oxide entries are restricted to a single stage fogger or a single stage nitrous plate (or dual, single stage, nitrous plates for dual carb entries only). Nitrous line size is unrestricted. Nitrous jet limitations for big block nitrous engines over 530ci are as follows: Fogger: .030 maximum, Single plate: .096 maximum; Dual plates (two carbs only): .069 maximum. Big block nitrous engines under 530ci, and all small block nitrous combinations permitted to utilize a fogger system with a .046 maximum jet size. and some weights Weight Breaks
Weight Breaks for nos pro street
ENGINE INDUCTION WEIGHT



Big Block Na 3000

Big Block Nitrous Oxide 3200

Small Block Na 2700

Small Block Nitrous Oxide 2800


are you making a suggestion for limited 8.5 what you have proposed will not work you will see 5.40s with those setups. looking for more in the 5.70s to 6.0s. there would need to be head limits and nos jet limits possibly no controllers of any kind.

[GodSpeed]

Vern you are right. Also weight may be light? Ing. systems and controlers will have to change. Some kind of plate system across the board with limited jetting.And limitted line size. Maybe all run one brand tire. take this to dealers get us all a deal all good places to start!!!!

[Kelly Pelrine]

Maybe you guys should look to the Mild Street rules as a start, and tack on whatever changes you feel you'll need to keep it where you want it? Vern is doing all the legwork for you guys. I told him i would consider allowing those that wanted to run this at an event next year once/if he can get it sorted out. It will not be an official OSM class next year however.

[GodSpeed]

Ok Kelly once again not looking good. I dont under stand this thinking? Looks like pro stock 8.5 racing wins in osm!!!!

[jason 408]

[QUOTE=nascar;23460]What is an exotic head-Blue Thunder, Profiler, Big Duke, Yates, or what?? yes all these are exotic heads . inline street style heads . you can limit nos jet size for small and big block and since adjust weight for na . should be pretty easy since you basicly same heads on both i. it you alow 200 shot of spray deduct so many pound to make na guys the same . here is a example of a nos pro street they limit nos size and adjust weight for na
NITROUS OXIDE: Nitrous oxide entries are restricted to a single stage fogger or a single stage nitrous plate (or dual, single stage, nitrous plates for dual carb entries only). Nitrous line size is unrestricted. Nitrous jet limitations for big block nitrous engines over 530ci are as follows: Fogger: .030 maximum, Single plate: .096 maximum; Dual plates (two carbs only): .069 maximum. Big block nitrous engines under 530ci, and all small block nitrous combinations permitted to utilize a fogger system with a .046 maximum jet size. and some weights Weight Breaks
Weight Breaks for nos pro street i was not say use these rules i was just showing how other places use a the limit jet rule . .
ENGINE INDUCTION WEIGHT



Big Block Na 3000

Big Block Nitrous Oxide 3200

Small Block Na 2700

Small Block Nitrous Oxide 2800 these are nmca nostalgia pro street rules and not what i think the rules should be or weights . i was just using them for a example on how the jet limit rule works for other places . they are way off what should be the rules . they were the first one i could remeber that used a jet limit rule

[inthe5s]

Ok Kelly once again not looking good. I dont under stand this thinking? Looks like pro stock 8.5 racing wins in osm!!!!

its not that she don't want it. its that its very hard to get sponsors for all the classes and if you send in a proposal for 8.5 then limited 8.5 they may get overwhelmed with to much to look at and drop it rather than figure it out. you can have the race as she is saying at the osm but we will need to do the work to get it and run it and if it fails then we have no one to blame. its a racers class made up by the racers for the racers and supported by the racers. we make the rules we take it in the direction we want its a win win for the ones who want it .

[Kelly Pelrine]

I am saying i will consider it. But you know to be honest, after all this drama and negativity, why on earth should I? I am being looked at as this is somehow all my fault. And i am being put in a position to where i dont see me coming out of it favorably either way. How is this remotely fair to the organization? So i suppose me wanting to consider it and not just jump right on it without a thought is what everyone wants. You guys are always saying how its unfair to allow a racer to dictate about a rule. Well what do you guys call this? I guess its only ok when it suits you. Then somehow its acceptable. I am trying to look at this non-judgementally, even though i do not agree with this one bit. I am still being open to what you guys who no longer agree with the current rules have to say, but i am getting nothing but flack? Give me a break. Im being pushed into a situation with zero hope. How can you expect me to not be irritated.

[nascar]

I am saying i will consider it. But you know to be honest, after all this drama and negativity, why on earth should I? I am being looked at as this is somehow all my fault. And i am being put in a position to where i dont see me coming out of it favorably either way. How is this remotely fair to the organization? So i suppose me wanting to consider it and not just jump right on it without a thought is what everyone wants. You guys are always saying how its unfair to allow a racer to dictate about a rule. Well what do you guys call this? I guess its only ok when it suits you. Then somehow its acceptable. I am trying to look at this non-judgementally, even though i do not agree with this one bit. I am still being open to what you guys who no longer agree with the current rules have to say, but i am getting nothing but flack? Give me a break. Im being pushed into a situation with zero hope. How can you expect me to not be irritated.

Not sure I see irritation. But, I would agree with others that one 8.5 class should be enough. It is already difficult to take care of the classes you already have or are going to have. If we don't race next year would be more the happy to help on the OSM side. And if don't race it has absolutely nothing to do with OSM. I am just feeling that it is time to cut back if I can.

Running with OSM has been great. We have made a lot of good friends and have always had a good time even when our results have not been to good.

Keep it up.:D

[Kelly Pelrine]

Not sure I see irritation. But, I would agree with others that one 8.5 class should be enough. It is already difficult to take care of the classes you already have or are going to have. If we don't race next year would be more the happy to help on the OSM side. And if don't race it has absolutely nothing to do with OSM. I am just feeling that it is time to cut back if I can.

Running with OSM has been great. We have made a lot of good friends and have always had a good time even when our results have not been to good.

Keep it up.:D

Art would love to have your help! Hopefully you guys can be racing, but i understand if not. Im really glad to hear about the friendships made, really thats what its all about :)

[jason 408]

You should not take is negitive. It is just alot of people want to have a place to race and trying to move osm where in needs to go witch is bigger . not trying to be neg just stating facts . I know you dont think you need another class and i resepct that . Your place do what you want . but you have to look at all the buzy this has gottin . thia place is nomally dead maybe a few post a day . This thread has gottin over 2600 views you cant add up all the other post on the board and get that , prob all of 8.5 ever !! There is a need for this class and a lot of people want it and know that it is need it to make osm get bigger not smaller . Lets face it osms bread and butter is 8.5 it is the only heads up class that had any car count all year . And with out it we prob would not be talking about next year because no one is going to show up to watch just index and 2 cars in pro . So instead of watching the slow guys in 8.5 go find some where else to run becuse they will never compete in outlaw give them what they want . You have cars that want to race and people intrested in this class just look at the action this thread is getting .

[GodSpeed]

Kelly I am in no way trying to make your life or job stressful God knows as a shop owner I live it every day!!! As far as I know you are the go to person? Just looking at next year and the 8.5 cars out here. as I said before would love to run all the races next year. I dont see most cars from last year competative but 3 or 4. My self and most guys in this day and time cant swing a purpose built 8.5 outlaw car. If rules stay the same I just dont know? I will help osm where ever I can please let me know!!!!

[cox motorsports]

Godspeed Im in 50/50 for pro stock racing!;);

Come on Dave, I can see it C&C Motorsports in prostock.

[GodSpeed]

Lets see where do we start my wood truck your dump truck lol !!!!! I got it C&C Trucking Pro stock race team ya baby !!!!!!!!!!

[Jason]

And with out it we prob would not be talking about next year because no one is going to show up to watch just index and 2 cars in pro .

Damn those index cars, the red headed step children of the OSM. No love. Jason

[Kelly Pelrine]

because no one is going to show up to watch just index and 2 cars in pro

What do ya think UMTR is? Plenty of people go to watch them. Im trying to build this series up, and i believe the classes i have added for next year will help with that. I think being at one track will help with that and im taking a big risk by doing what im doing next year. Im not gonna keep repeating myself lol its gettin old and im sure you guys are sick of hearing it as much as im sick of typing it lol. All ill say is ive heard what you guys are saying and what you've suggested, but you cant expect every suggestion to come to fruit.

[Johnson]

What the hell is UTwhat the hell ever

[GodSpeed]

Kelly If the roules are going to stay the way they are written all year and I can woork within these open roules I thank my old black car in the corner will do just fine!!!!! If you say yes to open roules as they are im in. There are a few things to conform but not many.Dont hate me im trying to get it right lol!!!!!!

[Tim Duncan]

UMTR is Stick Car Racing it is bracket racing that brings alot of cars and people to watch.

[nascar]

The reason I have not been expressing any concerns is I am trying to hang on in this tough economy it has been quite depressing for a car salesman these days. IF things dont pick up wont be doing much racing! On the bright side my car needs nothing except four tires to go racing!:D

Turob/Andy-what do you think about auditions for a driver. Also, someone that wil pay the dinner tab.:D

[Kelly Pelrine]

What the hell is UTwhat the hell ever

UMTR, United Manual Transmission Racers. It is a kick ass series made up of two classes, Street Stick & Quick Stick. www.umtrdragrace.com

[Kelly Pelrine]

Kelly If the roules are going to stay the way they are written all year and I can woork within these open roules I thank my old black car in the corner will do just fine!!!!! If you say yes to open roules as they are im in. There are a few things to conform but not many.Dont hate me im trying to get it right lol!!!!!!

I dont hate ya lol! All is well :)

[Kelly Pelrine]

UMTR is Stick Car Racing it is bracket racing that brings alot of cars and people to watch.

I stand corrected, i guess i kinda dont think of it as bracket racing because it is fun to watch haha.

[GodSpeed]

Its all good. Thanks kelly I under stand your opinion and direction of outlaw 8.5. Im in !!!! Buickgs 50/50 truck racing HELLO !!!!!!!

[Kelly Pelrine]

Lookin forward to next year!

[nascar]

I wanted to put this in the 8.5 section so we can discuss it here.

2008 proposed rules:

Small block N/A – 2850 lbs
Small block nitrous – 3150 lbs
Small block turbo & supercharger - 3250
Big block N/A – 3050 lbs
Big block nitrous – 3250 lbs
Big block turbo & supercharger - 3350
Add 100lbs for multi-stage NOS
Deduct 50 lbs for non-intercooled forced induction engine
4 Cylinder deduct 500 lbs from small block weight
6 Cylinder deduct 300 lbs from small block weight
Buick, Pontiac and Oldsmobile engine combinations run at small block weight

If the N/A combos start getting to the point where they are maxxing out, weight will be adjusted in small increments where we see fit (meaning any combo). Weight sheets will be gone over by our staff after each event to see where exactly which combos are running at and if changes will be warranted. Obviously there are several factors to keeping the rules as fair as possible, and i want to do everything i can to ensure that.

Discuss...

I am confused!! (no flames needed). Is the above the start for the 2009 season? What about foggers for nitrous set ups? What about size of turbos or superchargers, if any run? Controllers? What if someone shows up with a combo that is not addressed in the above rules?

Tire rule question; it says as designated, so from that one would think that it should be stamped as 26 x 8.5 x 15 and not measure any greater then 9". Is that correct? AWD car showed up at Vern's race. Had ET streets. They measured 9" wide. But, they were stamped 27.5 x 9 x 15". They were ET streets and not "true slicks"..

etc:017:

[Kelly Pelrine]

I am confused!! (no flames needed). Is the above the start for the 2009 season? What about foggers for nitrous set ups? What about size of turbos or superchargers, if any run? Controllers? What if someone shows up with a combo that is not addressed in the above rules?

Tire rule question; it says as designated, so from that one would think that it should be stamped as 26 x 8.5 x 15 and not measure any greater then 9". Is that correct? AWD car showed up at Vern's race. Had ET streets. They measured 9" wide. But, they were stamped 27.5 x 9 x 15". They were ET streets and not "true slicks"..

etc:017:

I will be releasing finals rules for all of the classes soon. Im not sure what tires he had but Mickey doesnt list a 27.5 x 9 x 15 for an ET Street or anywhere else that i can see. If the combo doesnt fit the rules, they should expect not to be able to run. That should be pretty self explainatory hehe.

[nascar]

I will be releasing finals rules for all of the classes soon. Im not sure what tires he had but Mickey doesnt list a 27.5 x 9 x 15 for an ET Street or anywhere else that i can see. If the combo doesnt fit the rules, they should expect not to be able to run. That should be pretty self explainatory hehe.

Ok. Whoops, they weren't mickey's. They were Hoosier, but you answered my question.

[cox motorsports]

How do you guys feel about a nostalgia rule for 1980 and older cars based on suspension?

Hey Kelly have you figured out anything yet for this rule?

[Kelly Pelrine]

Hey Kelly have you figured out anything yet for this rule?

Yes, there is not going to be a nostalgia rule.

[cox motorsports]

Yes, there is not going to be a nostalgia rule.

Cool ,thank you.

[Kelly Pelrine]

joo got it mang :biggrin:

who wants to go get sh!tfaced tonight? i need alcohol!

[regalpimp1978]

Hey kell i think the 8.5 tire rule should read slicks that measures 9 inches . I have heard of a few sets that have been stamped 26x8.5 but measured more than 9 inches. I just think this would save ya a lot of trouble in the ol tech line . And how about a go no go tool to check that !! Just my 2 cents craig

[cox motorsports]

Hey kell i think the 8.5 tire rule should read slicks that measures 9 inches . I have heard of a few sets that have been stamped 26x8.5 but measured more than 9 inches. I just think this would save ya a lot of trouble in the ol tech line . And how about a go no go tool to check that !! Just my 2 cents craig

Hell regalpimp if you need a set of those slicks call me 513-490-1907:reddevil::044:

[GodSpeed]

If we keep ing. systems outlaw keep controlers for nos open also somebody may have got one? this is outlaw 8.5 racing !!!!! LETS DO IT !

[regalpimp1978]

hell regalpimp if you need a set of those slicks call me 513-490-1907:reddevil::044: no thanks on the 8.5 w's :d lol are you gonna run 8.5 next year ?

[cox motorsports]

no thanks on the 8.5 w's :d lol are you gonna run 8.5 next year ?

No, I cant even think about keeping up with these guys. They have way to much hardware for me and my wallet.:icon_pidu: I think im going to run some 6.50 stuff maybe

[inthe5s]

News to me on the tire 8.5 W who makes that one or the stamp on a wide tire... I know the rule states 9 inch as measured so I know there has not been any that I have seen wider than that at the osm. but if you know something I dont feel me in If i had more tire I can fly then

[cox motorsports]

News to me on the tire 8.5 W who makes that one or the stamp on a wide tire... I know the rule states 9 inch as measured so I know there has not been any that I have seen wider than that at the osm. but if you know something I dont feel me in If i had more tire I can fly then

Vern , you mean you dont have some of those special tires like Cole did in DAYS OF THUNDER.:102:

[Victory Ray]

joo got it mang :biggrin:

who wants to go get sh!tfaced tonight? i need alcohol!

im game!! ill bring some good ole home brew..

[cox motorsports]

im game!! ill bring some good ole home brew..

Ray your game for anything.:givemebeer:

[inthe5s]

Vern , you mean you dont have some of those special tires like Cole did in DAYS OF THUNDER.:102:

OOOOO yep forgot about that I got them on the car now ready for daytona.. lets go

[inthe5s]

what did you GS I seen you called

[Kelly Pelrine]

im game!! ill bring some good ole home brew..

good i need it.

those of you that have called i will call you tomorrow.

[cox motorsports]

what did you GS I seen you called

I didnt call. Maybe it was the BOSS.:017:

[Victory Ray]

Ray your game for anything.:givemebeer:

shouldnt it be that way?

nothing like sittin' around with some good liquor (and a big bon-fire)trying to get rules hammered out..

[cox motorsports]

shouldnt it be that way?

nothing like sittin' around with some good liquor (and a big bon-fire)trying to get rules hammered out..

sounds good! What class you running next year? Are you still running the
nova

[cox motorsports]

good i need it.

those of you that have called i will call you tomorrow.

Thank you..