Observations and questions

[J.Pulaski]

As someone who has only participated in 1 event and was forced to leave early because of a family emergency. I don't feel I can comment on the rules or changes that should happen, but I'd like to offer some thoughts for discussion.
I admire the accomplishments of all the racers, so please don't take my comments as a dig on anyone.

Yes, drag racing is expensive.
Nobody does this for a living.

It seems every year that one combo has a slight advantage over another. Why is it that we look to allow more changes (read more money) for the slower combo rather than adjusting the faster combo? Since the beginning of FS the times have dropped consistantly and the costs have gone up proportionally.


How many people have raced 1 season and then "retire" or otherwise do not come back because of the cost of competing?


It has been pointed out that maybe the push rod racers have not tried every combination of parts to find the most powerful set up. Isn't that like playing "No Limit Poker"? If I can raise the ante higher than you can afford, I win.

Can a non-sponsored participant go rounds?

Will the rising costs of travel hurt attendance?


No flames intended, just would like to hear some opinions on the state of FS racing.

[ponie1992]

the observations and questions you have stated are precisely why i think the NMRA needs a class like FFW Street Stang. just my .02

[Jonathan Paulk]

Check over on NMRA, there is already discussion about this....

[Shawn Johnson]

The cost of attending each race kills the count more then anything...
We averaged $1000 to attend each race in 2005.

A payout increase across the board would help a lot.
If guys could get most of that money back without having to make it to the finals then they would be more willing to compete and work on their stuff slowly...
Right now you have to build and test everything you can right away just to have a chance at the finals to get any return on your attempt..
Slowing a combo down is not as easy as giving another more…
It’s like punishing someone for doing the best he can….
You would have to take things away from teams… as far as the 4v …there is not a lot you can take because we were not given much to begin with…
Stock intakes to only one header that is not really even a header..
We already weight 3400#s which cost us more then others as far as breaking parts…
So like I said it is easier to make one side run better then slow another down..

Shawn

[J.Pulaski]

I was starting to think you guys didn't like me.:D

I've been following the 2006 rules thread and found it quite interesting. I just felt my questions were more generic and less tangible then what intakes should be allowed or what weight breaks.

Shawn makes a good point about the costs of travel. My one trip this year cost me almost $400 and I didn't stay more than 1 day. That is with the entry fee though. `

I've talked with Denny and can't imagine how the regulars come up with the cash to build, test, and travel the whole circuit. I figure it has to cost at least $10,000 just to build a car that will probably get bounced in the first round. Then add the costs of travel and entry, another $10,000 and you have a $20,000 bill the first year alone.
Fuel costs will just keep rising too.

Unless your independently wealthy, you need a sponsor.
Where does that leave the little guy?

FFW pays from the 1/4 s on. Would it make sense to lower the win money and pay farther down the ladder? I know more money would be nice, but I'm just asking to see if paying farther down is an option.

I'm sure slowing a car down is difficult, but do you see the problem with allowing more and more changes? FS is running times that PS was a few years ago, PS is running times that RS was and RS is running in the 9s at the cost of a SSO car. At some point it will become a race between the rich folk.

I did post on the NMRA about a new class. Hopefully it will be something Heads up because we ran SS @ FFW and index racing is not heads up. It's basically a bracket with a common dial. Was not fun to let out or pedal a car at the finish line.

Thanks for the replies. I was hoping for bigger picture views and got just that.
Anyone else?

[KenCook]

I can tell you.
If I did not team up with Carlos, I'm not sure I would be able to do it.
I'm not wealthy but I'm not broke either :D


One of the best ways to enter and have a better chance is to buy your way in. Be on the look out for shortblocks or intake to pan deals.

I wish I would have bought Robins engine back then. lol

Looking back its easier to spend more the first time to get the right parts..

[Ian Mullane]

FFW pays from the 1/4 s on. Would it make sense to lower the win money and pay farther down the ladder? I know more money would be nice, but I'm just asking to see if paying farther down is an option.

NMRA does pay out to the 1/4's but it isn't much. Isn't the payout for winning only $250? Can't take much from there. The real money comes from contingencies. It would be a nightmare to pay that out farther. Hard enough already to get paid by many of the companies. Travel costs, I think, are more to blame for the lower car counts than one combo or another dominating the class. 3/4 of the class doesn't realistically expect to win anyway.

[J.Pulaski]

I didn't realize NMRA paid to the 1/4s also. Ooops

The irony of the situation is that contingency is paid to the winner which is usually the racer with the most support.

I don't really know what can be done to help the racers who know they can't win unless someone breaks or makes a mistake. The costs of travel may have an impact on the races attended. Which will only result in smaller fields.

There's more to the game then just leveling the playing field.

[Ian Mullane]

There is always going to be guys that come out to get a little magazine recognition and maybe see if they can improve on previous performances. In F/S, for years, there have always kinda been two races. 3 or 4 cars vying for the top spot and most of the rest of the field trying to avid being first round dog meat. Attendance is only going to get worse with the cost of traveling these days. I don't really know what can be done about that. Slowing the class down has been brought up several times. I don;t think this will work since there is always going to be a selec few that will figure out a way to eek out more peroformance than the rest. Thats heads up racing for you. Instead of attempting to slow the class down, I think leaving the rules relatively the same for a few years will bring more people back to the class. Look what has happened to P/S in the last couple of years. Even with Gene totally dominating they had 21 cars in Joliet and 24 in Bowling Green. The largest heads up class there. I think it'll come around in time.

[ponie1992]

I did post on the NMRA about a new class. Hopefully it will be something Heads up because we ran SS @ FFW and index racing is not heads up. It's basically a bracket with a common dial. Was not fun to let out or pedal a car at the finish line.

Thanks for the replies. I was hoping for bigger picture views and got just that.
Anyone else?

my point with suggesting SS is that it doesn't take much money at all to build a car that would be competitive. all you have to run is a 12.50, no faster. i'm not saying take a FS car and hit the brakes before the traps. build a car that runs consistently 12.6-12.5. my whole point is the cost issue. plus, SS will receive a decent payout for 2006.

[J.Pulaski]

Jeremy,
I'm not saying that SS is bad I'm saying it's not Heads up even though both cars leave at the same time.

Yes it's cheaper to build, but it still boils down to building a car to go 12.0 or better than tuning it back to run 12.50.
Automatics have a big advantage.

Consistant launchs are key along with good lights. Sticks just make that a bit harder than an auto.

[Jonathan Paulk]

The runner-up also gets contingency....The green car will have pulled in almost $3K when all the companies pay...

[Fast Orange]

my point with suggesting SS is that it doesn't take much money at all to build a car that would be competitive. all you have to run is a 12.50, no faster. i'm not saying take a FS car and hit the brakes before the traps. build a car that runs consistently 12.6-12.5. my whole point is the cost issue. plus, SS will receive a decent payout for 2006.

Is running 12.50's with open rules really any Fun???
I think I'd rather stay home and cut the grass.:D

[ponie1992]

Is running 12.50's with open rules really any Fun???
I think I'd rather stay home and cut the grass.:D

to me running 12.50's and a chance to win some cash and a national championship is pretty damn cool. especially if i can do it with a small investment. you might not find it fun but i dont see you winning any HEADS UP championships. racing is always better than cutting the grass. i'm all for the little guy having a chance to win something. maybe you dont care about that.

[Fast Orange]

I'd still rather cut the grass!:D

[92bluelx]

I'd still rather cut the grass!:D


I will admit that heads up racing is expensive and takes alot of hard work and dedication. However index racing is just as hard and takes just as much dedication. The first of the year me and my dad built 2 cars. Were just a few poor boys that get bye, no big sponsers no help, just our 9-5 job. We built a F/S car and a FFW S/S car. We spent close to 25K on the F/S car buying the best parts available, having the best head guy do the heads, the lightest pistons you can find, pro shifted tranny etc etc. The car made 8 1/8th mile passes, blew a head gasket bent a rod killed a piston. Was going to have to wait 12 weeks to get a piston. So we put the F/S car on the back burner and went to running dads car in S/S. We spent 300 dollars on a 86 coupe put a stock 302 with a set of GT-40 heads on it and a stock C4 with a shift kit. Dad had less than 5K in the whole car. After the 3rd race we had won 2 and was leading the points. Not to mention we had won 8K in contingencies. Since he had the points lead we decided to dedicate ourself to making as many FFW races as we could. Dad won 5 races and runnered up once. Not to mention he won the bracket race 4 times and runnered up twice at FFW. Making a total of 30K in contingencies and finishing 2nd in points receiving $500 dollars. Now he races every weekend at the local track. He has a car that can race in every sanction, and be competitive. So for the poor person with no help just looking to have fun and be competitve in a national event at a chance to win a few dollars S/S is one hell of a class, and bye the way I hate to mow the yard hehe

Nick Lucas

[ponie1992]

thanks so much for your input nick. everything you said is precisely my point. the NMRA needs a class like this. hopefully i'll get to line up against you one day if i can ever get to an event.