Thoughts of automatic in R/S

[92bluelx]

Was looking through the rule book and noticed my car is set up very close to a R/S car..... Stock shortblock, stock cam, Edelbrock Rpm heads Trick flow upper and lower intake, 30lb injectors 76 mass air, shorty headers only thing is I run a C4, I was wondering your thoughts on the difference of a C4 and a stick car. My best 1/8th mile time is a 6.80 1.46 60 , at 99mph. My car weighs 3000lbs with me in it and that was with a .073 jet. Would love to come and and compete with you guys, but i really like my automatic. I do alot of index/bracket racing on the side and wouldn't want to give that up. Do you guys ever seeing a C4 legal in R/S


nick lucas

[KenCook]

If they did, I would guess it would be a power robbing aod only like F/S and P/S.

[92bluelx]

If they did, I would guess it would be a power robbing aod only like F/S and P/S.

I guess thats what I"m asking whats the difference from a power standpoint from a stick car C4 or a aod??

[Jim Coger]

The original intent was a manual trans class, but the class has come a bit away from it's original design. I cannot propose Automatics, however I would not oppose them either. Anything to help car counts.
I'd like to think that if Automatics were ever allowed, that there should be some provision to encourage/promote manual transmissions to try and keep some of the original intent. Maybe a weight break or something.

[DARRIN P/S 5006]

I think P/S should be a "stick class " only..Anyone can put a car in drive and shift without using the clutch.

[Perky]

I think P/S should be a "stick class " only..Anyone can put a car in drive and shift without using the clutch.

Do you really think running an AUTO is that easy????

[DARRIN P/S 5006]

Do you really think running an AUTO is that easy????


As far as Missed shifts Perky..Yes. I had a C4 car i raced on the street with a Power adder and it's much better than a stick with a power adder..That Auto will take some power away from your combo...I just think that it should stay a Manual trans class. F/S P/S R/S.

[KenCook]

Ask Groh how many convertor's he had to test in P/S to get the right one.
It's a good guess that a len tech will be .15-.3 slower then a stick when the right convertor is found.

[Teddy]

Its been 4 years ago but my Lentech was 3 tenths slower than the non-proshifted 3550! I doubt you'll see auto's in R/S.

[Gene Hindman]

Ask Groh how many convertor's he had to test in P/S to get the right one.
It's a good guess that a len tech will be .15-.3 slower then a stick when the right convertor is found.
Here we go again with this bull crap... This not completely true. AOD's and stick use different profiles on the camshafts, different gear ratios, different intake spacers, etc. I think the RIGHT convertor and AOD, the combo is and has been proven to be just as fast and quick. Ask Jeremy Martorella about the Lentech and convertor he purchased from Tom Payn and how it compared to the adjustable clutch, Proshifted TKO. They show a power loss on the dyno, but make up for the power loss with absolute shifts and torque multiplier. Jeremy's car actually done better with the AOD in it, because the reaction was better also. The car ran the same numbers as the slipper clutch did also. Which used to be a 150# penalty here in NMRA.
Auto's in R/S could be a possibility to get car count help, but I agree that the 5 speed will need a weight break. With the trans and clutches that NMRA has set forth for the slower classes to use, the Auto would kick the sticks butt in a power adder class for sure.

[Eric@JPC]

i agree that a Auto rule may gat the car counts up!!!

[KenCook]

Gene
I really have no info on a AOD in a R/S car to compare it to a Stick car after testing.
You may be right. I don't know.

As for the old F/S rules which it was tested with by a few racers.
A Aod would never run with a stick car. Even with a 100lb break.
As for P/S, Rich sure seemed to pick up ET going to a stick that one race.

[Gene Hindman]

As for P/S, Rich sure seemed to pick up ET going to a stick that one race.
You are correct, but how do we know he didn't finally figure his engine out for BG either? He missed the 2 races prior to that event (Due to broken pieces) and had been as quick as a 10.42 at the very first race of the season last year when I went just a few hundreths quicker at a 10.36. I also compared passes later in the season as he was still nearly .05 slower at a couple of races, and then all of a sudden he fell way off to 10.60's and 70's. In BG, I went a 10.26 right before qualifying and a 10.31 during elimination at worse air than the previous nights qualifying. He went a 10.29. To me, everything looks right in line. He went a tenth quicker than his previous best in BG and so did I. The one thing no one has brought up is the fact that the T-5 is quicker than the TKO. Testing back to back, the TKO shows less E.T. and in my opinion should have a weight break over the T-5 also.
I'm just trying to put it in perspective, and Jeremy Martorella's car was a Trophy stock car running just a Tad faster than what F/S is today. His tests were that the AOD was equal to a slipper clutch, but having an easier time hooking and reacting with the AOD.

And Darrin, we don't race without using the clutch. It wont work.

[92bluelx]

Hey Gene what was the difference in Roberts fox car from a stick to a C4 do you remember.

[Gene Hindman]

Hey Gene what was the difference in Roberts fox car from a stick to a C4 do you remember.
Not a very good comparison, he uses a 4.6 4 valve and is looking for consistency. Plus he is not using a power adder. Trying different convertors really isn't in his vocabulary anymore. He did lose a couple of tenths though I believe, but most of it was in the 60ft due to not leaving on the limiter.:D

[Kenn1320]

92bluelx,

Forget running this class. For some reason the NMRA will not allow a C4 in these classes. They only seem to allow the AOD, maybe because Len is or was a big sponsor. You will also see some racers that think an auto is easy and feel your cheating if your not rowing gears. Nobody likes to miss gears, but the fact is some including myself arent the best with a stick. I missed a few gears during competition and I dont like that. My car now has an auto. Does that make it boring, not to me. My opinion, theres nothing cooler then hearing an auto bark second gear on the street. Well getting third is cooler, but you get what Im saying.
Enjoy your auto and run True Street or something, where your auto isnt looked down at.
Ken

[Frank Peterson]

Turn the question around and tell me what the benefits are of allowing only manual transmissions?

[92bluelx]

I noticed that the NMCA rules for mean street and street race allow you to run either a 5spd temec T-5 trans or a C4, seems they could keep the same parity in R/S. I think maybe a C4 would be easier on parts. I can't afford to replace a transmission every race

[Chris Fillyaw]

If you allow an auto in RS, then you have to allow a better clutch.

[Redsnk95]

Like a McLeod adjustable set-up?

Troy

[Robin]

Leave it stick only. With Automatics you open a whole new can of worms. We have enough crying between the Nitrous/Blower/Pushrod/Modular cars without adding another.

First it will be the clutches, then the transmissions, then the auto guys will want C4's or worse yet proflights or powerglides. There are other places to race an auto. Some very good classes. Lets leave this one alone.

Robin

[brian@afm]

A big part of the fan-appeal is the stick. The stands come to life when these racers smack second with the front tires still hanging in mid air.

[Ian Mullane]

A big part of the fan-appeal is the stick. The stands come to life when these racers smack second with the front tires still hanging in mid air.


Amen!!!!!!

[Kenn1320]

Fans like to see that, regardless of the class. What puts fans in the stands isnt the transmission, but rather the feeling they can relate to the cars on the track. They themselves have a basic bolt on car with a power adder. There amazed at how fast the cars go within the confinement of the rules. That is until they find out how different these cars are to their own. These are not street cars like the class name implies. These are high dollar dedicated race cars. Once that is realised, some loose interests, some stick around. I dont think an automatic is going to make a bit of difference in terms of fan enthusiasm. The biggest killer of the auto is the guys making the rules. Its just another animal to add to the tech list. With all the money in these motors/cars, why limit the trans to 5spd tremecs? Why not allow "real" manual transmissions?